Importance of Strike on Distance

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, inthehole said:

For me, the result is dramatically better than using a full length shaft & having a huge distance variation due to inconsistent center face contact.   A nicely struck drive with my shorter driver will fly way past a toe or heel shot with a longer one - EVERY time. 

The biggest thing here is the two words you used, For Me

It worked for you, but that doesn't mean it would work generally. 

[inthehole]

35 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

The biggest thing here is the two words you used, For Me

It worked for you, but that doesn't mean it would work generally. 

how could it not work for all but the elite players  ?  Hitting it center face vs perimeter strike seems pretty darn important ...

Edited December 23, 2018 by inthehole

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, inthehole said:

how could it not ?  Hitting it center face vs perimeter strike ??

I meant that going to a shorter club would in fact give people a higher rate of striking the center of the club face. I don't think that is a generalization that works or is supported by facts. 

[Lihu]

Just now, inthehole said:

how could it not ?  Hitting it center face vs perimeter strike ??

In my case, it was different at different stages of my development too.

Yes, a shorter shaft hit longer for me at one point, but I’m back to a longer driver and hit  proportionally longer with it than my 43” driver with an even heavier shaft.

Also, there are many more factors at work here such as swing weight. A lighter swing weight could throw off your kinematic sequencing which could slow your impact velocity as well. Many more as well...

[colin007]

On 12/22/2018 at 9:54 AM, Righty to Lefty said:

I am a 5 handicap...I swing at 120 mph...I hit the ball with a ton of leverage.  On the range I promise you I could fool you...now on the course that's a different story !! I never said it was linear and I agree with your statement for the most part.  The margins are really slim at that level no doubt.

I'm sorry, which tour pro am I supposed to be confusing you with?

 

[Righty to Lefty]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:36 PM, colin007 said:

I'm sorry, which tour pro am I supposed to be confusing you with?

 

This one: 

Amazing how you all think that a Pro has to look a certain way. I love how everyone just jumps all over people with a differing view on things. Such is a reflection of the current society in America and across the world.  I have the swing speed of an average tour Pro..I used to have just as much as Cameron Champ...and I am more than capable of striking ball first on a golf shot every now and then, contrary to what most think on this thread, thus I am more than capable of hitting a golf shot that a Pro golfer could do no better. Especially if we are talking about on the range where we are all Pros.  My goodness you all act like Pros are these mythical beasts that strike it endlessly perfect.  You don't think that Tommy Gainey was told all his golf career that he would never make it with his swing.  He swung his swing and made it. If we playing pretty golf swing then why doesn't Adam Scott win every tournament....oh maybe it's because golf is about getting to impact on time and as consistently as possible inline with your intentions. I have heard on many occasion that there is a different noise when I hit a golf ball and that it sounds like a gun shot going off.  I even brought one of my friends out to the course for the first time and the first thing she noted was how different the sound of my shots were in comparison to everyone else's.  I want everyone to play good golf but it seem that all most here want to do is rip on people who think differently than the group. I played to a 5 handicap right and left handed...how many people you know have done that? I'll wait. 

[Righty to Lefty]

36 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

This one: 

 

Amazing how you all think that a Pro has to look a certain way. I love how everyone just jumps all over people with a differing view on things. I have the swing speed of an average tour Pro..I used to have above average speed...and I am more than capable of striking ball first on a golf shot every now and then, contrary to what most think on this thread, thus I am more than capable of hitting a golf shot that a Pro golfer could do no better. Especially if we are talking about on the range where we are all Pros!  

You all act like the ball knows that the person about to hit it is Tiger Woods so it prepares a different sound for him.  If you strike it purely with leverage and speed then it will sound powerful....period.  And if a Pro and an amateur strike the ball purely with the same speed...they will sound the same. The reason why most don't think their shots sound the same is because they don't carry the same amount of speed into the shot that a pro does. I never heard anyone say " did you hear the sound off of that Pro's 50 yard wedge shot."  Well why is that?  Could it be because the impact conditions required are the exact same for everyone so there isn't any difference because you can only inject so much speed to hit it 50 yards with any given club.  If hit my 7 iron 175 (which I do) and a Tour Pro hit his the same distance...then they have to sound the same because they both produced the same ball speed to go 175 yards.  Now if you hit your 7 iron 150 then yes there is a huge audible difference.  

My goodness you all act like Pros are these mythical beasts that strike it endlessly perfect.  You don't think that Tommy Gainey was told all his golf career that he would never make it with his swing.  He swung his swing and made it to the Tour. If we playing pretty golf swing then why doesn't Adam Scott win every tournament....oh maybe it's because golf is about getting to impact on time and as consistently as possible inline with your intentions. I have heard on many occasion that there is a different noise when I hit a golf ball and that it sounds like a gun shot going off.  I even brought one of my friends out to the course for the first time and the first thing she noted was how different the sound of my shots were in comparison to everyone else's.  I want everyone to play good golf but it seems that all most here want to do is rip on people who think differently than the group. I am wired differently because I played/play the game right and left handed to a 5 handicap and my path to get there was very different after switching over to lefty and starting from scratch. Took me six years to break 90 right handed and 6 months to do it lefty...it wasn't by luck...it was by understanding what was most important to grasp and focusing on those aspects.  Strike is boss. 

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

This one:

You're not giving anyone here enough credit.

I don't care if you're standing between Tommy Gainey, Jim Furyk, and Eamonn Darcy in his prime… people are going to very quickly identify you as the five handicapper.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Amazing how you all think that a Pro has to look a certain way.

Nobody has said that, IIRC.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I love how everyone just jumps all over people with a differing view on things.

Or is it that people "jump all over" those with a wrong view on things?

Dude, if you put you on the range with PGA Tour players, even someone who doesn't know a bunch about golf is going to identify you as the five handicapper pretty quickly.

If you put the guy with whom I work, Dave Wedzik, on the range with PGA Tour players, decent golfers would quickly figure out which one is the former Tour pro. That's in his words.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Such is a reflection of the current society in America and across the world.

Or… maybe people just all think you're wrong.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

and I am more than capable of striking ball first on a golf shot every now and then, contrary to what most think on this thread, thus I am more than capable of hitting a golf shot that a Pro golfer could do no better.

Nobody's said anything that contradicts anything there.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Especially if we are talking about on the range where we are all Pros.

No.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

My goodness you all act like Pros are these mythical beasts that strike it endlessly perfect.

Nobody's acting like that.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

You don't think that Tommy Gainey was told all his golf career that he would never make it with his swing.

You apparently think that everyone judges a swing by how it looks, when nobody's really said anything like that.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I played to a 5 handicap right and left handed...how many people you know have done that? I'll wait. 

Once again… a 5 handicap is miles from a Tour player. Miles.

@mvmac would have to give you three a side, and a Tour player plays at his course… Xander Schauffele. He would't compare himself, six shots better than you at your best, to a Tour player. But you are…

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I never heard anyone say " did you hear the sound off of that Pro's 50 yard wedge shot."

I have. I talk about sound all the time, especially on specialty shots.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

If hit my 7 iron 175 (which I do) and a Tour Pro hit his the same distance...then they have to sound the same because they both produced the same ball speed to go 175 yards.

I doubt that even your great strikes sound the same because of your ball position, never mind that you're going to have far, far, far fewer of those great strikes.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Took me six years to break 90 right handed and 6 months to do it lefty...it wasn't by luck...it was by understanding what was most important to grasp and focusing on those aspects.

It's off topic for this discussion, but I don't understand how you and @Faksakes act like your years playing righty have no impact of influence on your ability to do it lefty.

---

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Strike is boss.

Here's the part you seem to be missing… nobody really disagrees with that.

Striking the ball solidly is very, very important. It's only when you go off the rails with this "a 5 handicapper is very near to a Tour player" that you lose people.

And rightfully so.

[Vinsk]

16 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I love how everyone just jumps all over people with a differing view on things. I have the swing speed of an average tour Pro..I used to have above average speed...and I am more than capable of striking ball first on a golf shot every now and then,

A different view? Never said anything about your ‘view.’ You stated you could fool me at a range amongst pros. Your view is wrong. I’m not talking about watching a silhouette of you, I’m talking about watching you strike a ball amongst pros. I’ve watched many pros at the practice tee during tournaments. I’ve noticed a different sound, ball flight, and a consistency unparalleled with any non-pro. Your ball striking would stand out like a sore thumb. I don’t need to see your ballstriking to know that.

[mvmac]

22 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

And if a Pro and an amateur strike the ball purely with the same speed...they will sound the same.

There's more to it than that. Even among top pros in the world the sound can differ. From my experience, Tiger, Rory and Lee Westwood's strikes sound different than everyone else.

22 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I never heard anyone say " did you hear the sound off of that Pro's 50 yard wedge shot." 

Again there is more to it than just speed. I just played three rounds with a Japan tour player and his shots inside 100 yards sound different than mine.

22 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Could it be because the impact conditions required are the exact same for everyone so there isn't any difference because you can only inject so much speed to hit it 50 yards with any given club.

Not all pros have the same impact conditions.

22 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

You don't think that Tommy Gainey was told all his golf career that he would never make it with his swing.  He swung his swing and made it to the Tour.

I don't think anyone is debating swing mechanics or style. Tommy Gainey hits it more solid than I do and if I hit 20 balls and he hit 20 balls, you'd easily be able to see who was the better player.

14 hours ago, iacas said:

@mvmac would have to give you three a side, and a Tour player plays at his course… Xander Schauffele. He would't compare himself, six shots better than you at your best, to a Tour player. But you are…

Yeah no way, different world. Xander is ranked as one of the best in the world right now, would be crazy to compare my ball-striking to his.

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, mvmac said:

There's more to it than that. Even among top pros in the world the sound can differ. From my experience, Tiger, Rory and Lee Westwood's strikes sound different than everyone else.

I agree. 

Just an easy example, you could have a golfer who swings out to in 15 degrees, and swings at 120 mph. That golfer will be striking the ball at a glancing blow compared to someone who hits with a path a few degrees off the target line. 

[Righty to Lefty]

1 hour ago, mvmac said:

There's more to it than that. Even among top pros in the world the sound can differ. From my experience, Tiger, Rory and Lee Westwood's strikes sound different than everyone else.

Again there is more to it than just speed. I just played three rounds with a Japan tour player and his shots inside 100 yards sound different than mine.

Not all pros have the same impact conditions.

I don't think anyone is debating swing mechanics or style. Tommy Gainey hits it more solid than I do and if I hit 20 balls and he hit 20 balls, you'd easily be able to see who was the better player.

Yeah no way, different world. Xander is ranked as one of the best in the world right now, would be crazy to compare my ball-striking to his.

I have walked with all three golfers for 18 holes noted nothing out of the ordinary with the sound of their strike. If we are both hitting a 50 yard wedge shot and both land the the ball in about the same spot on the green then sure there is an optimal window where the ball will be compressed and the audible noise will be the highest, because higher will require more speed which will reduce the sound because the blow will be more glancing to go 50 yards, and lower will require less speed so the sound will be reduced, but the ball speed out of the same shot window will be the same to go a given distance, so they will sound the same.  Ball speed is ball speed for it to sound different the Pro would have to somehow inject more speed but get less distance and that just isn't possible without changing the shot window.  

What else is there other than club speed,  angle of attack and purity of strike? Maybe a little bit of how the club was designed or the ball?  If we are hitting shots struck purely with the same ball speed out of the same shot window, and they land within reason, of each other on the green then they will sound very similar granted we are using the same loft of club.  What am I missing where a Pros shot is just automatically louder?  

I agree that there is more than one way to execute any given shot but similar shots will sound the same.  His shots sounded different because he was probably playing a different shot than you were...and your vantage point when you are hearing your own shot or hearing someone else's shot is very different.  I will post a video of me hitting the same club to the same flag from two different locations and they sound very different.  My buddies and I call it "cracking eggs" because a well struck Iron sounds like a raw egg being dropped on the ground.  

MVMAC you are a 3.6 handicap and I just find it hard to believe that you don't think that you can hit 20 solid shots and that someone from a distance watching you hit shots on the range would pick you out as a "hacker" within 20 shots on the range.  Come on Man !! 

When I asked the Pro that I played with how he was so consistent from day to day he said....and I'll never forget his answer...." Jones...you are an electronics technician...I'd be pretty impressed if I came to your office and saw what you do everyday at your job also."  His job is to hit golf balls...nothing else...so of course he is really good at it! But us "part time " golfers are more than capable of hitting shots that a Pro could hit no better that's all I'm saying.  

[colin007]

6 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

But us "part time " golfers are more than capable of hitting shots that a Pro could hit no better that's all I'm saying.  

When we do it, it's *in spite of* our swings. When the pros do it, it's *because of* their swings. That's the difference that's instantly recognizable. 

[saevel25]

6 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

When I asked the Pro that I played with how he was so consistent from day to day he said....and I'll never forget his answer...." Jones...you are an electronics technician...I'd be pretty impressed if I came to your office and saw what you do everyday at your job also."  His job is to hit golf balls...nothing else...so of course he is really good at it! But us "part time " golfers are more than capable of hitting shots that a Pro could hit no better that's all I'm saying.  

To think that anyone can go out and hit the same number of golf balls as PGA Tour players do and they will become PGA Tour players is absurd. There are plenty of people who put in the hours but never become PGA Tour players.

[Vinsk]

7 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

On the range I guarantee I could fool you.

No. You couldn’t.

7 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

But us "part time " golfers are more than capable of hitting shots that a Pro could hit no better that's all I'm saying.  

Hardly the same. You actually believe because you hit a solid strike ‘every now and then’ that you could strike balls on a range amongst pros and....fool people? Come on man....

[Vinsk]

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I have walked with all three golfers for 18 holes noted nothing out of the ordinary with the sound of their strike.

That’s a view. Fine. I have noticed a difference. You haven’t. So what?

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I have walked with all three golfers for 18 holes noted nothing out of the ordinary with the sound of their strike.

Perhaps you're simply not that observant? Nobody else has really agreed with you on this one.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

If we are both hitting a 50 yard wedge shot and both land the the ball in about the same spot on the green then sure there is an optimal window where the ball will be compressed and the audible noise will be the highest, because higher will require more speed which will reduce the sound because the blow will be more glancing to go 50 yards, and lower will require less speed so the sound will be reduced, but the ball speed out of the same shot window will be the same to go a given distance, so they will sound the same.

I don't know why you're going on about a 50-yard shot:

• The topic title is "importance of strike on distance."
• You can hit a 50-yard shot a bunch of ways, which changes the sound. A "louder" sound may not be what you want to hear at all.
• People often can't differentiate between the sound of the ball strike and the sound of the clubhead-ball-turf impact that follows thereafter.

The sound of 50-yard shots is irrelevant to the topic. (That said, the sound of a great player's 50-yard shots is still different without being necessarily "louder.")

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I will post a video of me hitting the same club to the same flag from two different locations and they sound very different.

We understand how this works; the video would serve no purpose.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

MVMAC you are a 3.6 handicap and I just find it hard to believe that you don't think that you can hit 20 solid shots and that someone from a distance watching you hit shots on the range would pick you out as a "hacker" within 20 shots on the range.

He's a +3, and he said there's no comparison between him and a PGA Tour player.

And I agree: there's none. Any decent golfer would quickly identify him as the non-Tour player when put side by side against some PGA Tour players.

@Righty to Lefty, you're nowhere near as good as you think you are. You're miles from being as good as @mvmac, and Mike is probably about as far from being a PGA Tour player as you are from being him.

I think you're absolutely conning yourself, man.

---

The above stuff and recent diversion doesn't really seem to be super on topic.

• I think we all agree that distance (relative to the club being swung) is a combination of squareness of strike (which includes path, AoA, dynamic loft, strike location, etc.), speed, etc.
• I think that the average amateur can and should focus on all three of the major things I just noted:
  • Speed, either by working on speed directly, or improving the technique.
  • Centeredness of strike. This is sometimes just awareness, but more often is a matter of improving technique as well.
  • Spin loft stuff - AoA, path, club face angle, etc. Again, often just a technique thing.
• I think that the gains to be made are increasingly small and increasingly difficult as a golfer continues to improve.

[Lihu]

On 12/23/2018 at 11:36 AM, colin007 said:

I'm sorry, which tour pro am I supposed to be confusing you with?

 

Ouch, didn’t even think to look at his swings...

Year round golf in So. Cal. You get to see quite a few good players. Their strikes are very solid and you might catch a few lower level pros on the courses I play every now and then. Even the scratch and plus handicap players are pretty humble about their abilities.

 

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

To think that anyone can go out and hit the same number of golf balls as PGA Tour players do and they will become PGA Tour players is absurd. There are plenty of people who put in the hours but never become PGA Tour players.

Sure, just because you could hit that many balls a day doesn’t mean it’s improving your swing. In 99% of the cases, it just makes your swing weaker. It’s a self fulfilling act where you get used to hitting shorter distances more times. Kind of the opposite effect you want on the course? 😁