X-Factor Linked to Back Pain

[Vinsk]

50 minutes ago, RBImGuy said:

spine compression.
when the lower body goes up and upper body goes down.
it's why Tiger crushed a disc with the Foley experiment. (stacking left side)

It's why you want a free movement that don't compress as much.
 

 

Not really. Disc herniations can occur with repetitive twisting, torque on the spine, it cannot be limited to a compression issue. The swing you show has a lot of torque. Most good golf swings do. And this can lead to back issues just like Toger’s. Tiger didn’t ‘crush’ his disc Foley experiment or not.

By ‘crush’ were you referring to his disc or his vertebrae? Discs are spongy material and can herniate. Again from an excessive compression injury of the vertebrae like a fall from 10’ or higher with the legs remaining straight. But it’s repetitive torque with twisting along with some compression that can cause issues with the golf swing. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Vinsk

[RBImGuy]

9 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Not really. Disc herniations can occur with repetitive twisting, torque on the spine, it cannot be limited to a compression issue. The swing you show has a lot of torque. Most good golf swings do. And this can lead to back issues just like Toger’s. Tiger didn’t ‘crush’ his disc Foley experiment or not.

No torque and I develop the swing system, may need to check again.
if you don't understand how Foley created the issue for Tiger it's understandable.
Now you may need reading comprehension, I answered the guys question, don't change the context please when you answer.

If you don't understand what Tiger does here with Foley instruction, it's understandable again.
 

 

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, RBImGuy said:

No torque and I develop the swing system, may need to check again.
if you don't understand how Foley created the issue for Tiger it's understandable.
Now you may need reading comprehension, I answered the guys question, don't change the context please when you answer.

If you don't understand what Tiger does here with Foley instruction, it's understandable again.
 

 

Nah. I’m a physician. I understand the injury far better than you. You’re trying to link two things together with assumptions and linear thinking. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Vinsk

[iacas]

Your made-up BS ain’t gonna fly here @RBImGuy.

The swing you posted is anything but “effortless.” It’s a BS marketing word with no actual meaning. It immediately identifies you as a huckster.

[3jacker]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:41 PM, Vinsk said:

It’s not nonsense at all. DJ hit Nicklaus’ driver without any practice time 290yds. Jack averaged 276yds with that driver. To think Jack would hit DJ’s driver at 23 any further than DJ is asinine. DJ, Champ, Bubba are all longer hitters than Jack ever was regardless of equipment. DJ also hit Jacks one iron farther than Jack as well. Just facts. Sorry...know it. Live it. Love it.

Dustin Johnson hits Jack Nicklaus’ old driver, 1-iron

---

Before Dustin Johnson hops on a plane and jets up to TPC Boston for this week’s Dell Technologies.

 

How are you accounting for the massive increase in ball distance from then until now?  And it is massive at those swing speeds.

Edited February 28, 2019 by 3jacker

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, 3jacker said:

How are you accounting for the massive increase in ball distance from then until now? 

How are you? Testing performed showed about a 5% carry increase on Pro V1 over 90 compression Balatas. I wouldn’t call that massive. 

[3jacker]

Depends on where one chooses to get their data.

"When Tour pros put the Titleist Pro VI in play in late 2000, they automatically hit the ball 10-15 yards farther with each iron."

From here:  

How far would golf's legends drive the ball using modern equipment?

---

At the 2016 Ryder Cup, the 6-foot-5 Thomas Pieters belted a drive 324 yards. His ball was the shortest in the group. Rory McIlroy pounded a...

Then there's the much closer mown fairways, etc. 

Just handing DJ an old driver and calling it comparable is a far cry from an objective comparison.  And Jack could regular hit that old equipment over 300 yds (and so could some of his predecessors like Snead).  It's an interesting article above.

But no matter how much it's analyzed, it's theoretical.  But looking at Jack's swing from the 60s/70s there is no doubt in any sane person's mind that that club is flat out moving.

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, 3jacker said:

Depends on where one chooses to get their data.

"When Tour pros put the Titleist Pro VI in play in late 2000, they automatically hit the ball 10-15 yards farther with each iron."

From here:  

How far would golf's legends drive the ball using modern equipment?

---

At the 2016 Ryder Cup, the 6-foot-5 Thomas Pieters belted a drive 324 yards. His ball was the shortest in the group. Rory McIlroy pounded a...

Then there's the much closer mown fairways, etc. 

Just handing DJ an old driver and calling it comparable is a far cry from an objective comparison.  And Jack could regular hit that old equipment over 300 yds (and so could some of his predecessors like Snead).  It's an interesting article above.

But no matter how much it's analyzed, it's theoretical.  But looking at Jack's swing from the 60s/70s there is no doubt in any sane person's mind that that club is flat out moving.

He was terrific. And if Jack was able to video his swing and train the way DJ and the current players do, then he may have been comparable. But he didn’t and others in his time didn’t either except perhaps Gary Player. 

But don’t discount DJ taken one of Jack’s clubs and with a cold start, crank one much farther than Jack ever did. DJ is a phenomenal athlete. 

[3jacker]

True.  But one doesn't have to be an athlete to hit it far. 

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, 3jacker said:

True.  But one doesn't have to be an athlete to hit it far. 

Uhhhh… depends on your definitions of "athlete" and "to hit it far."

DJ hits it far consistently, and offensive and defensive linemen in the NFL are still "athletes."

18 hours ago, 3jacker said:

"When Tour pros put the Titleist Pro VI in play in late 2000, they automatically hit the ball 10-15 yards farther with each iron."

That's not "data." That's a guy's guess looking back at history.

Anyway, let's get back to the actual topic.

[3jacker]

I think we can all agree that John Daly is not, nor ever has been, an athlete?

[saevel25]

15 minutes ago, 3jacker said:

I think we can all agree that John Daly is not, nor ever has been, an athlete?

That has nothing to do with the topic.

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 4:03 PM, nevets88 said:

All the usual stuff you hear about fitness for injury prevention follows. Golf is still nowhere near as contact as basketball (or similar) as anyone who has ever played a pickup game lately can attest to. I wish I had a high swing speed "problem", going to guess I don't swing hard enough to get into this danger zone, still reading this makes me less likely to delay my next stretching routine.

I am reading a book now called, "Foundation". It's a way to strengthen the muscles around the lower back that help support it. Also, the exercises train the body to activate the muscles around the back better and retrains the body on how to move properly. They make a good case against the conventional suggestions on what helps protect the back, like just focusing on Abdominal muscles. 

Maybe Tiger is doing a bit of this now with his swing.

Quote

The modern "X-factor" swing favoured by many professionals may hit balls harder and further but it can also put extra strain on the spine, the Barrow Neurological Institute experts say.

Maybe @iacas, can comment on this, but how many PGA tour players favor or actively restrict the hips?

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Maybe @iacas, can comment on this, but how many PGA tour players favor or actively restrict the hips?

Few. But I don't have any idea what a percentage would be and can't really name a bunch or anything.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:41 PM, Vinsk said:

It’s not nonsense at all. DJ hit Nicklaus’ driver without any practice time 290yds. Jack averaged 276yds with that driver. To think Jack would hit DJ’s driver at 23 any further than DJ is asinine. DJ, Champ, Bubba are all longer hitters than Jack ever was regardless of equipment. DJ also hit Jacks one iron farther than Jack as well. Just facts. Sorry...know it. Live it. Love it.

Dustin Johnson hits Jack Nicklaus’ old driver, 1-iron

---

Before Dustin Johnson hops on a plane and jets up to TPC Boston for this week’s Dell Technologies...

 

Yes, but what BALL did DJ hit with Jack's old clubs? Jack played the McGregor Tourney ball, which was about the worst one out there at the time!

Anyway, it was interesting to listen to the comments about Molinari's swing, and how he allows the left heel to come up in the backswing. I like Harvey Penick's attitude about it. Let the heel come up "if it wants to". The left heel on the ground swing might be OK for the young, skinny, supple dudes. For guys my age maybe not so much!

Letting the left heel come up may diminish the "X-Factor", but it can help increase your arc, and save your lower back! Plus, I like setting the left heel down as a trigger for the downswing. This is something I kind of "remembered" last Summer when thinking about how I used to play. 

[Vinsk]

12 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Yes, but what BALL did DJ hit with Jack's old clubs? Jack played the McGregor Tourney ball, which was about the worst one out there at the time!

Anyway, it was interesting to listen to the comments about Molinari's swing, and how he allows the left heel to come up in the backswing. I like Harvey Penick's attitude about it. Let the heel come up "if it wants to". The left heel on the ground swing might be OK for the young, skinny, supple dudes. For guys my age maybe not so much!

Letting the left heel come up may diminish the "X-Factor", but it can help increase your arc, and save your lower back! Plus, I like setting the left heel down as a trigger for the downswing. This is something I kind of "remembered" last Summer when thinking about how I used to play. 

Right. If only Carl Lewis could’ve worn Usain Bolt’s shoes.

[saevel25]

7 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Right. If only Carl Lewis could’ve worn Usain Bolt’s shoes.

Not sure that analogy works.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Not sure that analogy works.

Probably not. No analogy needed really. DJ is a more superior athlete than Nicklaus ever was. It’s the primary reason he’s a longer hitter than Nicklaus, not the golf ball.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Vinsk

[boogielicious]

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Probably not. No analogy needed really. DJ is a more superior athlete than Nicklaus ever was. It’s the primary reason he’s a longer hitter than Nicklaus, not the golf ball.

I would phrase it more as DJ and the current top players have trained with modern methods specifically to hit the ball farther with all their clubs. This includes not just their bodies, but their technique. Jack was still an excellent athlete, but that wasn't his focus or the focus of players at the time from a physical training standpoint.. If he was playing today and trained the way they do, he may have been equal to DJ, Rory, etc. But he didn't and guessing that he could is difficult.