Should Club Manufacturers Have to Standardize Loft?

[David in FL]

20 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

If anything was to be standardized I would think it would be shaft length, rather than loft.

The tall and short guys would love that...

[Hardspoon]

8 hours ago, David in FL said:

The tall and short guys would love that...

Huh? How would it affect them? If all manufacturers labeled their 37” iron as a 7-iron, that wouldn’t change anything about customizing clubs for height.

Actually, you could argue that it’s pretty close to being the standard right now. While their lofts vary greatly, the Ping G400, Ping iBlade, Titelist AP2 and Titleist MB all have a 37” 7-iron. Manufacturers vary the loft to fit different players, but pretty much use (off-the-shelf) length to label irons.

 

 

[David in FL]

32 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

Huh? How would it affect them? If all manufacturers labeled their 37” iron as a 7-iron, that wouldn’t change anything about customizing clubs for height.

Actually, you could argue that it’s pretty close to being the standard right now. While their lofts vary greatly, the Ping G400, Ping iBlade, Titelist AP2 and Titleist MB all have a 37” 7-iron. Manufacturers vary the loft to fit different players, but pretty much use (off-the-shelf) length to label irons.

 

 

Their standard length 7-iron shaft may be 37”, but there are many people for whom that doesn’t fit, but who still want 34° loft in their AP2...

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

Their standard length 7-iron shaft may be 37”, but there are many people for whom that doesn’t fit, but who still want 34° loft in their AP2...

Right - my clubs are an inch longer than standard. Does that mean I have to get my 7 iron relabeled as a 5 iron?

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

STATIC LOFT doesn't matter, DYNAMIC LOFT, LAUNCH ANGLE and DESCENT ANGLE do. 

Exactly! This is key. 

[Hardspoon]

2 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

Right - my clubs are an inch longer than standard. Does that mean I have to get my 7 iron relabeled as a 5 iron?

No more (or less) than if you had a club bent to 0.5 degrees less loft.

You're missing the point I'm trying to make, which is that it's not really accurate to say that there's no standard whatsoever for what makes a 7-iron an 7-iron.  I think, generally speaking, it's the length of the club.

People focus on loft, and say that "loft-jacking" is annoying because you're comparing a 7-iron from one company to a 6-iron from another.  But you're really comparing a club that is 37" long in its standard spec with another that is 37" long (in most cases) in its standard spec.

Also, I'd guess that well over 90% of the irons sold are at the stock length.

 

[Patch]

I would think that loft wise, golfers would know what their own distances are with the clubs they play with. 

So what if my 7i is someone else's 6i loft. I still hit my 7i my 7i distance, plus, or minus a little. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Patch

[onthehunt526]

24 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

No more (or less) than if you had a club bent to 0.5 degrees less loft.

You're missing the point I'm trying to make, which is that it's not really accurate to say that there's no standard whatsoever for what makes a 7-iron an 7-iron.  I think, generally speaking, it's the length of the club.

People focus on loft, and say that "loft-jacking" is annoying because you're comparing a 7-iron from one company to a 6-iron from another.  But you're really comparing a club that is 37" long in its standard spec with another that is 37" long (in most cases) in its standard spec.

Also, I'd guess that well over 90% of the irons sold are at the stock length.

 

Yes almost all clubs that are 37" in length are standard 7-irons. (Some might be 37.25"). 

Static loft is only one component and in reality with the way that SGI clubs perform, the launch angle, will probably be about the same on all 7-irons. The spin rate will come down but loft has a lot to do with spin rate. But that is the only variable that is significantly changed. Peak height will vary slightly, and descent angle with be slightly higher. So even though your 28.5° static lofted 7-iron goes farther and spins less, it will still stop.

It's not static loft that matters, it's knowing how far you hit each club in your bag whether they're AP1, or 718 MB. Their is much more to it than just static loft. So it's namely a who cares what the loft is, as long as you know how far YOU hit it 80% of the time.

[Swooshgolf]

I thought there was kind of a unofficial range of lofts under each category (GI, blades, etc) of irons. Those seem to have a small variance.

[onthehunt526]

21 minutes ago, Swooshgolf said:

I thought there was kind of a unofficial range of lofts under each category (GI, blades, etc) of irons. Those seem to have a small variance.

You would be correct. It's not an industry standard but typically for 7-irons, Blades 34-35°, Player's Cavity 33-35°, GI 30-32°, SGI 27-30°. 

But like I stated above, those are static lofts. Which really don't matter. Why does a 37- 37.25" club have to labeled a 7-iron? Because the overall clubhead weight is around 270 grams. In order to achieve the Standard swingweight for a 7-iron, when assembled (usually D1), the club must be 37- 37.25". 

That's why all 7-irons are 7-irons, the club's static loft is not factored into this formula. Why does it matter? I'm 2 to 3 clubs longer with my M6s vs my CBX blades. Does it matter? Not really because I know how far I hit each club regardless of what is stamped on the bottom.

[Swooshgolf]

13 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

You would be correct. It's not an industry standard but typically for 7-irons, Blades 34-35°, Player's Cavity 33-35°, GI 30-32°, SGI 27-30°. 

But like I stated above, those are static lofts. Which really don't matter. Why does a 37- 37.25" club have to labeled a 7-iron? Because the overall clubhead weight is around 270 grams. In order to achieve the Standard swingweight for a 7-iron, when assembled (usually D1), the club must be 37- 37.25". 

That's why all 7-irons are 7-irons, the club's static loft is not factored into this formula. Why does it matter? I'm 2 to 3 clubs longer with my M6s vs my CBX blades. Does it matter? Not really because I know how far I hit each club regardless of what is stamped on the bottom.

I've always wondered why some get so amazed at how far pros hit their irons. They sometime have longer shafts, stronger lofts and deloft the club. I voted Quit your worrying.

[rehmwa]

For a good salary and benefits (and travel both ways), I would volunteer to go to each manufacturer and hit all their club models.  Then, we could simply standardize all the clubs under how they perform under my performance baseline.

They could also simply send me full sets for every design and I'd send them the info shortly. 

problem solved

[onthehunt526]

2 hours ago, Swooshgolf said:

I've always wondered why some get so amazed at how far pros hit their irons. They sometime have longer shafts, stronger lofts and deloft the club. I voted Quit your worrying.

Pros will present their 34 or 35° 7-iron with about 27-29° of loft because of their downward angle of attack and forward shaft lean they present less loft, namely to get that sweet spot on the center of the ball (.84 inches). The club actually rolls up the face, in that microsecond that it makes contact with the ball, that's where the spin comes from.

[Ty_Webb]

55 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

The club actually rolls up the face, in that microsecond that it makes contact with the ball, that's where the spin comes from.

I assume you mean the ball here, but I was also under the impression that this had been disproven via high speed film. I don't think the ball rolls up the face.

[onthehunt526]

17 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

I assume you mean the ball here, but I was also under the impression that this had been disproven via high speed film. I don't think the ball rolls up the face.

You might be right. But remember contact is a very very short amount of time.

[Ty_Webb]

26 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

You might be right. But remember contact is a very very short amount of time.

Indeed. I want to say it’s 1 or 2 thousandths of a second. 

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Indeed. I want to say it’s 1 or 2 thousandths of a second. 

400 microseconds.

[tdkrod]

If you wanted a more lofted iron set, has anybody just added a 1/2” to each club making the 6 iron more like a 5 iron on down through the set.