Can overswinging cause an over the top move?

[Hugh Jars]

Can overswinging and taking back the club behind the head in the backswing promote a steep, over the top/outside-in swing?

Can it encourage over-activating the shoulders?

[saevel25]

57 minutes ago, Hugh Jars said:

Can overswinging and taking back the club behind the head in the backswing promote a steep, over the top/outside-in swing?

I would say yes, but there are people who can shallow the club from that position.

58 minutes ago, Hugh Jars said:

Can it encourage over-activating the shoulders?

I don't know what this means.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Hugh Jars said:

Can overswinging and taking back the club behind the head in the backswing promote a steep, over the top/outside-in swing?

As @saevel25 said, short answer is yes, but the club can be shallowed from that position. It's just harder to do.

You can also still bring the club down steep from an on-plane and under-plane position at the top of the backswing. Backswing position will help make it easier to shallow the club but if you're steep, there's a wrist and arm component involved.

[Hugh Jars]

34 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

 

I don't know what this means.

The club is a long way from getting back down to the ball with a large takeback and the force required to overcome the inertia of the club is relatively large compared to a smaller backswing. The body instinctively engages the muscle of the shoulders/upper body to counteract the relatively greater force generated from taking the club so far back. As opposed to a swing with a smaller takeback, where the lower body and can generate most of the force required and the wrists assist greatly in generating adequate clubhead speed. In fact the wrists generate approx 60% of the clubhead speed required via the release for a full swing for most pros. Amateurs conceptually struggle to understand this and believe that it should be the larger muscles of the lower and upper body that do this.

[Foot Wedge]

3 minutes ago, Hugh Jars said:

In fact the wrists generate approx 60% of the clubhead speed required via the release for a full swing for most pros.

Where is this figure derived from?  It's a bit hard to believe as the wrists don't actually do much as far as "releasing" the club goes.  If you're referring to turning over or rolling your wrists to square the clubface that's not what happens.

[saevel25]

8 minutes ago, Hugh Jars said:

The club is a long way from getting back down to the ball with a large takeback and the force required to overcome the inertia of the club is relatively large compared to a smaller backswing. The body instinctively engages the muscle of the shoulders/upper body to counteract the relatively greater force generated from taking the club so far back. As opposed to a swing with a smaller takeback, where the lower body and can generate most of the force required and the wrists assist greatly in generating adequate clubhead speed.

I do not have any measurements of muscle activation to actually fact check this statement. I don't think it particularly matters. If you do, then please post your source so I can learn more about this.

9 minutes ago, Hugh Jars said:

In fact the wrists generate approx 60% of the clubhead speed required via the release for a full swing for most pros.

Please present the data to back this claim.

I found this, and how do you counter Titleist TPI comments,

Quote

The faster the release of the wrists the more the deceleration and the slower the hands will be at impact.  It is a nice example of the action-reaction law of motion; the force of the club releasing causes and opposite force on the hands causing the lead arm to slow down.  This means that measuring hand speed at impact may be misleading. It’s better to know what the peak hand speed was earlier in the downswing.  From our research at TPI we have compiled a tour pro database and from this database, we have found that the average peak mid-hands speed in the downswing is 22.0 mph and the average mid-hands speed at impact is 17.6 mph.

Also, the release happens due to proper mechanical movements. A golfer can not consistently control a release, nor should they.

[phillyk]

Whenever I think of over-swinging, I think world long drive guys.  Their more often miss is out to the right. It may not be so much of an over the top move but a not getting the club face squared thing.

Edited March 12, 2019 by phillyk
grammar

[Patch]

39 minutes ago, Foot Wedge said:

Where is this figure derived from?  It's a bit hard to believe as the wrists don't actually do much as far as "releasing" the club goes.  If you're referring to turning over or rolling your wrists to square the clubface that's not what happens.

At one time it was promoted that with the hands leading the club head, the wrists allowed the club head to "catch up" with hands. This catching up produced more club head speed. 

Perhaps that's what the OP is thinking about. 

 

 

[billchao]

I feel like this is relevant to this discussion. The position of the club and hands at the top dictate how much work is required to shallow, but being in a certain position doesn't guarantee the club is going to come down a certain way. Daly transitions on-plane. So do Nicklaus and Couples. On the flip side, plenty of amateurs are laid off and come down steep.

[Benit0]

I happen to slice more as I over swing so I tend to associate my out to in swing path with my over swing. Just by doing a shorter back swing, i slice a lot less.

There are other factors involved that's for sure by over swinging is one of them for me!