Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 2417 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Man, $2.4 Million seems crazy high to me. Even if you could get an average of $20/rd and had absolutely no overhead for maintenance, salaries, etc., it would take 120,000 rounds until you broke EVEN. If you averaged 60 rounds/day, 365 days/year, it would still take you over 5 years to even reach that #. Again, that's with absolutely no other overhead. Assuming that you could even clear 50% of your income as profit, you're looking @ 240,000 rounds at that price. Now I don't know what it costs to play a round on a 9 hole course out there, but here in the non-peak times I can walk several nice 18 hole courses for about $20. 

I'm guessing the high cost is due to the location being in an area zoned commercial. 

I'm all about seeing people pursue their passions in life, but this just seems like a losing proposition to me. 

Best wishes as you work this out, though. 

Edited by Indy-Archer

Posted (edited)
On 3/27/2019 at 1:19 PM, Indy-Archer said:

Man, $2.4 Million seems crazy high to me. Even if you could get an average of $20/rd and had absolutely no overhead for maintenance, salaries, etc., it would take 120,000 rounds until you broke EVEN. If you averaged 60 rounds/day, 365 days/year, it would still take you over 5 years to even reach that #. Again, that's with absolutely no other overhead. Assuming that you could even clear 50% of your income as profit, you're looking @ 240,000 rounds at that price. Now I don't know what it costs to play a round on a 9 hole course out there, but here in the non-peak times I can walk several nice 18 hole courses for about $20. 

I'm guessing the high cost is due to the location being in an area zoned commercial. 

I'm all about seeing people pursue their passions in life, but this just seems like a losing proposition to me. 

Best wishes as you work this out, though. 

Very good numbers analysis! And NO ONE clears 50% of income as profit! Well, maybe televangelists! But they have production costs too. So I doubt it! 

Edited by Buckeyebowman
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
2 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Well, that's if you want to pay off the entire debt in one year! No one does turn around times based on one year! 

And it would be much more than “break even”,  because you would now own the $2.4 million asset without an offsetting mortgage.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Just keep running it and make yourself some money. See how it goes, if you are not making money quickly it will always be an uphill battle. Sounds like this old guy is getting his money worth out of you. You run the place, restore it and open it and then buy it. He made his money and then let it go, it's only worth a fraction of the going rate just like anything else. Good Luck.


Posted

For comparison, the 18 hole Hyland Golf Course in Southern Pines, NC just sold for $1,975,000.  Obviously a different part of the country but a full 18 holes with year round play.

Rob Tyska

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Besides seeming to be an exhorbitant price, banks have little to NO intrest in financing golf courses. It's basically $7k per month service debt per million for a commercial loan. If, and that's a big if, you found someone to finance $2M dollars, you would owe the bank $14K per month minimum.

Considering the winters you guys can have up north, no to mention rainouts, I don't see how in the world it would make sense.

If it's zoned commercial, anything other than commercial development would require zoning changes. It might be a beauracratic fight you would lose.

You sound like you have a good heart. Don't let sympathy and nostalgia cloud your senses. It has to be about business.


  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
On 3/24/2019 at 8:28 PM, greatjay23 said:

Thanks for all the replies. That’s one reason I’m glad I’m operating it first so I can see what it is capable of. I will say this all the times I’ve been over there doing work to get it ready this year there is always a golfer or two stopping to ask if it is going to reopen and sometimes hit a few balls.

 

I do believe 2.4 is high for a Par 3. I know they are looking to sell it for the land rather than the business. They’ve had one or two offer before that’s actually been about asking price, since it is commercial property, but with zoning and ordinances each deal has fell through. I’d love to be able to buy it for less, but I know they are looking at commercial land value. 

 

I guess i’ll be fixing it up and reopening it and I’ll have to see what it brings in. I don’t know that it will bring in enough to justify that price though, because I just don’t know if that kind of money is there.

 

I’ll be redoing the greens this week and hopefully by the end of April I’ll be able to get it open.

Downtown Philadelphia would be great, outside York might not be worth the 2.4M.

What are the comps for land value?

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I know one thing for sure...banks are not touching golf courses here in Florida. Myself and a couple of investors are looking at possible buying a golf course in this area and none of them are going for more than 2M. As a matter of fact most are not even close. And these are 18 holes with year round play. We have checked out a couple and done the due diligence etc and it's gonna take a while to make $ back on investments. Some longer than others. We have been working on this for almost a year and I have a feeling that we may end up doing nothing. 

My bag:

Taylor Made R7 (x-stiff).
Taylor Made Burner 2 irons (stiff)
Cleveland Wedges (gap and 60)
Odyssey two ball putter (white) 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
9 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

I know one thing for sure...banks are not touching golf courses here in Florida. Myself and a couple of investors are looking at possible buying a golf course in this area and none of them are going for more than 2M. As a matter of fact most are not even close. And these are 18 holes with year round play. We have checked out a couple and done the due diligence etc and it's gonna take a while to make $ back on investments. Some longer than others. We have been working on this for almost a year and I have a feeling that we may end up doing nothing. 

Sometimes when nobody is touching it, that's the time to get in. The population in the US by 2030 baby boomers will all be 65+, and 1 in 5 US residents will be of retirement age. Whether that translates into more golf in FL is the big question.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 2417 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.