Do You Tee Off While the Group Ahead of You Is Putting Out?

[Dave2512]

On any holes over 320y yes. Waiting for the people in front to clear the green would slow things to a crawl. On most par 4's I'll hit after they hit their 2nd shot and are rolling out of range towards the green. At my home course all but one par 4 is over 330y. They'll be so far out there they're not going hear or see the ball unless they are watching me instead of playing golf.

[RayG]

If I walk up to a tee and I see 4 guys waiting to tee off on a 320+ yd hole so the green clears, at least 3 of you better hit the green or be close enough to give it a scare. People get tired of "Pros from Dover" and may not say anything right away, but if a ranger happens by, they will hear it. Yesterday's 'quick 9' is an example- A father and son ahead of us with another 2 folks. They showed up and played from the tips. Neither one could hit a fairway 8 out of 9 times and nowhere NEAR as long as they though they were... seriously, 350 yards out into the wind and you're still waiting to hit? Or on a Par 5, 250 out from the green, in the rough and have to get under a tree... and you wait for the green to clear? And then skin it 150 yds further down the rough... PLUS the coaching of the son who looked about as interested in golf as having his hair colored purple. So on a 320+ yd hole, and the group is still putting out- GO!

[Dave2512]

^ I got stuck behind a group like that yesterday and that is one of the most frustrating slow play issues there is. I see people waiting for the group in front to clear the green on a par 5 all the time. If you've been hitting 220y drives your aren't going to crack it 300y with a fairway metal.

[sean_miller]

Not sure why everyone is so touchy about a 320 yard par 4. Is this a continuation of the 300+ thread? If some could reach it with a solid hit - not a one in a million fluke - then they should wait, OR PULL LESS CLUB AND GO. Simple as that.

[DirtCheap]

I am very encouraged by these replies.
I had always just done it, and it never occurred to me that it may be against either the rules or against golf etiquette.

I'm glad to hear I've been doing it right all along!

[Dave2512]

With increasing course traffic and slow play becoming an issue I think people should do anything they can to keep things moving. I went out for what I assumed would be a quick 9 yesterday. More than 2 hrs later I was just getting to the 7th green. Because I had to be somewhere that afternoon I had to bail at 7. The slow group had more than one issue but a lot of it was waiting too long to hit shots and not playing ready golf.

[Andrew Gibson]

I played a couple weeks ago. The course I play regularly is cheep and around the corner from my house and I can play for about the same cost as a large bucket... so you can guess there are a lot of new golfers on the course which is fine... These 2 girls were on the first tee box when I walked into the pro shop to check in... After BSing for a few I went to walk out and saw that they were still on the tee... I said to the shop guy, mind if i go to 6 and he said you can do whatever you want... mostly because they know me. So I played 6-9 then back to 1 and caught them when they were teeing off on 5! I watched them tee off on 6 while i played 5, a 150 yard par 3... they were just getting out of the cart to tee off when I was putting... the tee box for 6 is 30 yards from the 5th hole, and I was walking... I cannot figure out what the heck they were doing for 10 min while I played the 5th...

I understand playing slow because you are new to the game and not hitting great shots, but 3 hours to play a short 9 is crazy and there is no excuse for waiting around on the tee for no reason no matter what... this is a course that I walk in right around 3 hours... not long, and i don't run around it either.

[Nutter]

I generally wouldn't tee off unless they're at least 50 yards ahead of my max drive

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Nutter

I generally wouldn't tee off unless they're at least 50 yards ahead of my max drive

That seems to be the general consensus when people start a "the group behind hit into us" thread.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gibson

I played a couple weeks ago. The course I play regularly is cheep and around the corner from my house and I can play for about the same cost as a large bucket... so you can guess there are a lot of new golfers on the course which is fine... These 2 girls were on the first tee box when I walked into the pro shop to check in... After BSing for a few I went to walk out and saw that they were still on the tee... I said to the shop guy, mind if i go to 6 and he said you can do whatever you want... mostly because they know me. So I played 6-9 then back to 1 and caught them when they were teeing off on 5! I watched them tee off on 6 while i played 5, a 150 yard par 3... they were just getting out of the cart to tee off when I was putting... the tee box for 6 is 30 yards from the 5th hole, and I was walking... I cannot figure out what the heck they were doing for 10 min while I played the 5th...

I understand playing slow because you are new to the game and not hitting great shots, but 3 hours to play a short 9 is crazy and there is no excuse for waiting around on the tee for no reason no matter what... this is a course that I walk in right around 3 hours... not long, and i don't run around it either.

Same thing for me yesterday. I walked in and paid and the starter said I could follow the group on the tee as long as I was ready to go because he had a 4some set to go at 10:13. This was at 9:50. I grabbed a cart and headed out to the parking lot to grab my clubs and put on my shoes. I head to #1 and the 4some is still on the tee. At 10:08 I was able to tee off. I took them 18 minutes to get from the tee and out of range. It was brutal. After a few lost balls and some utter chaos it took 35 minutes to play 6 and 7.

I think a lot of it is ignorance. Some people simply don't understand ready golf and slow play issues.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by RayG

Neither one could hit a fairway 8 out of 9 times and nowhere NEAR as long as they though they were... seriously, 350 yards out into the wind and you're still waiting to hit? Or on a Par 5, 250 out from the green, in the rough and have to get under a tree... and you wait for the green to clear? And then skin it 150 yds further down the rough... PLUS the coaching of the son who looked about as interested in golf as having his hair colored purple.

So on a 320+ yd hole, and the group is still putting out- GO!

Originally Posted by Dave2512

I got stuck behind a group like that yesterday and that is one of the most frustrating slow play issues there is. I see people waiting for the group in front to clear the green on a par 5 all the time. If you've been hitting 220y drives your aren't going to crack it 300y with a fairway metal.

Originally Posted by Dave2512

With increasing course traffic and slow play becoming an issue I think people should do anything they can to keep things moving. I went out for what I assumed would be a quick 9 yesterday. More than 2 hrs later I was just getting to the 7th green. Because I had to be somewhere that afternoon I had to bail at 7. The slow group had more than one issue but a lot of it was waiting too long to hit shots and not playing ready golf.

I can't see how this bothers everybody so much.  It doesn't even make sense mathematically.

I rarely hit a solid fairway wood ( at all ) but when I do, I can hit it close to 250.  So if I am going for the green, I'm going to wait for the people to clear off of it even though I know there is a 10-15% max chance I'm going to hit the green.  I'd rather make the group behind me wait an extra 2 or 3 minutes than potentially injure somebody in the group in front of me.  (If its more than 2 or 3 minutes, then its not my group that you need to worry about)

And here's the thing:  It can only happen once per round.  If, like you infer above Dave, that somebody did that to you multiple times per round then there's nothing to gripe about because it means after the first time they still managed to catch back up to the group in front of them.  Obviously, if they never catch back up to the group in front of them, then for the rest of the round there would be nobody for them to wait for.

So what's the big deal?

[RayG]

I can't see how this bothers everybody so much.  It doesn't even make sense mathematically. I rarely hit a solid fairway wood ([U] at all [/U]) but when I do, I can hit it close to 250.  So if I am going for the green, I'm going to wait for the people to clear off of it even though I know there is a 10-15% max chance I'm going to hit the green.  I'd rather make the group behind me wait an extra 2 or 3 minutes than potentially injure somebody in the group in front of me.  (If its more than 2 or 3 minutes, then its not my group that you need to worry about) And here's the thing:  It can only happen once per round.  If, like you infer above Dave, that somebody did that to you multiple times per round then there's nothing to gripe about because it means after the first time they still managed to catch back up to the group in front of them.  Obviously, if they never catch back up to the group in front of them, then for the rest of the round there would be nobody for them to wait for. So what's the big deal?

Sure. a solid hit from someone who has the talent to get there relatively often is not an issue. It's that guy who is in the rough, 250 plus out and has to deal with a tree who DOESN'T have the ability he thinks he does that is the issue. As a sidenote, as we played up the hole behind them- I drove out to a spot 200 yds short of the green on this par 5 (relatively short, I'll admit). One of my friends had hit his into the short rough on the left and was about 235 out. He just stood around with his 3 wood waiting... "What's up?" "Oh, I can get there.." I told him- "ONCE, 3 years ago and you were 30 yds closer and in the fairway with a tailwind, AND it barely crawled on. You can go"... "I don't know"... "I do, we just complained about that guy waiting and even though he's not the greatest thing out here, you aren't as good as he is, let's go" And like players of his ability will do 90% of the time, top skinned it 125 yds down the fairway. Once he did that, we waited for the other gentleman to hit is layup and I got to my ball just as they were finishing up. I grabbed my 5wd and waited for the green to clear. He gave me the same speech sarcastically.. I then knocked it 20ft below the hole and 2 putted for birdie. But while I was waiting, the group on the tee were hitting their drives- they KNEW they couldn't reach me because they had been watching me hit all day and we had seen them hitting behind us. They came up 30-40 yds short of my position, and by the time they got to their balls we were on the green, they played their layups and we were done when they were ready for their approaches. Knowing your ability and even the ability of those in front and behind can speed up play, or make it SEEM faster

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I can't see how this bothers everybody so much.  It doesn't even make sense mathematically.

I rarely hit a solid fairway wood (at all) but when I do, I can hit it close to 250.  So if I am going for the green, I'm going to wait for the people to clear off of it even though I know there is a 10-15% max chance I'm going to hit the green.  I'd rather make the group behind me wait an extra 2 or 3 minutes than potentially injure somebody in the group in front of me.  (If its more than 2 or 3 minutes, then its not my group that you need to worry about)

And here's the thing:  It can only happen once per round.  If, like you infer above Dave, that somebody did that to you multiple times per round then there's nothing to gripe about because it means after the first time they still managed to catch back up to the group in front of them.  Obviously, if they never catch back up to the group in front of them, then for the rest of the round there would be nobody for them to wait for.

So what's the big deal?

The slow group yesterday eventually did lose sight of the group in front of them by the time we got to 7. It happens gradually and the group in front starts to pull away and as they do the people waiting continue to wait as the distance increases. But as I said they had more than one issue. They lost a ball on #6 and the entire group went looking for it which resulted in another person losing their ball and they zipped back and forth across the fairway like mad bees looking for lost ball #2. It took 35 minutes to get through 6 and 7. By that time the group in front was long gone. I don't doubt they had legit reasons for waiting in the beginning, it was Sun and somewhat busy.  But as the group in front started to outpace them it got silly. By the 4th hole, a long par 5, the gap was getting wider. They were waiting to hit shots that were longer than they were getting it off the tee. By the time I hit my 2nd shot on #6 there were 3 4somes waiting on the #6 box. It only took them losing pace via unnecessary waiting, some abysmal putting and a couple of lost balls to jam up everyone behind them.

Here's a problem I see often. Example is a guy duffs his tee shot and his wife hits a good one. Despite the lack of distance he can still get to the green with his 2nd but she can't. Because he's out they both wait to hit. Their balls are close enough that she could hit without much effort and there is no danger but because it's 20y past his she waits. Scenario #2. Because she's playing reds and the tees are 25y in front she waits to hit despite the group in front being out of her range.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayG

Neither one could hit a fairway 8 out of 9 times and nowhere NEAR as long as they though they were... seriously, 350 yards out into the wind and you're still waiting to hit? Or on a Par 5, 250 out from the green, in the rough and have to get under a tree... and you wait for the green to clear? And then skin it 150 yds further down the rough... PLUS the coaching of the son who looked about as interested in golf as having his hair colored purple.

So on a 320+ yd hole, and the group is still putting out- GO!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave2512

I got stuck behind a group like that yesterday and that is one of the most frustrating slow play issues there is. I see people waiting for the group in front to clear the green on a par 5 all the time. If you've been hitting 220y drives your aren't going to crack it 300y with a fairway metal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave2512

With increasing course traffic and slow play becoming an issue I think people should do anything they can to keep things moving. I went out for what I assumed would be a quick 9 yesterday. More than 2 hrs later I was just getting to the 7th green. Because I had to be somewhere that afternoon I had to bail at 7. The slow group had more than one issue but a lot of it was waiting too long to hit shots and not playing ready golf.

I can't see how this bothers everybody so much.  It doesn't even make sense mathematically.

I rarely hit a solid fairway wood (at all) but when I do, I can hit it close to 250.  So if I am going for the green, I'm going to wait for the people to clear off of it even though I know there is a 10-15% max chance I'm going to hit the green.  I'd rather make the group behind me wait an extra 2 or 3 minutes than potentially injure somebody in the group in front of me.  (If its more than 2 or 3 minutes, then its not my group that you need to worry about)

And here's the thing:  It can only happen once per round.  If, like you infer above Dave, that somebody did that to you multiple times per round then there's nothing to gripe about because it means after the first time they still managed to catch back up to the group in front of them.  Obviously, if they never catch back up to the group in front of them, then for the rest of the round there would be nobody for them to wait for.

So what's the big deal?

Is it possible that the group "the waiters" are waiting on could play faster, but think they aren't being pushed because every time they look back they see a group that couldn't possibly reach the green standing around doing nothing? And around it goes.

[walk18]

Anyone reading this thread should probably wait until the green clears since most members of this forum can apparently drive it 300+ consistently.

[Beachcomber]

To the OP.  Rip it.  Don't wait - especially if the group ahead is all on the green putting.

Regarding the Par 5 and trying to reach it in two - and waiting for the green to clear before you hit your approach shot.  I use the following guideline....

1.) If I'm inside of 260... And don't have to worry about a forced carry or hazard lingering ahead... I'm waiting as I can reach the green.

2.) If I'm outside of 260... Then it is very unlikely that I could reach the green and will hit.

It's simple.  Know your distances and play accordingly.  Even if I hit my 3W and I was 261 out... My approach shot would never reach them... And even if it did - it would be rolling for ~ 25yds before it even reached that 260 yardage.  So it would not hurt anyone even if it rolled into them.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by walk18

Anyone reading this thread should probably wait until the green clears since most members of this forum can apparently drive it 300+ consistently.

We need a recount. I follow those threads and estimate that > 95% percent of forum members have never even seen a 300 yard drive in person let alone hit them.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

The slow group yesterday eventually did lose sight of the group in front of them by the time we got to 7. It happens gradually and the group in front starts to pull away and as they do the people waiting continue to wait as the distance increases. But as I said they had more than one issue. They lost a ball on #6 and the entire group went looking for it which resulted in another person losing their ball and they zipped back and forth across the fairway like mad bees looking for lost ball #2. It took 35 minutes to get through 6 and 7. By that time the group in front was long gone. I don't doubt they had legit reasons for waiting in the beginning, it was Sun and somewhat busy.  But as the group in front started to outpace them it got silly. By the 4th hole, a long par 5, the gap was getting wider. They were waiting to hit shots that were longer than they were getting it off the tee. By the time I hit my 2nd shot on #6 there were 3 4somes waiting on the #6 box. It only took them losing pace via unnecessary waiting, some abysmal putting and a couple of lost balls to jam up everyone behind them.

Here's a problem I see often. Example is a guy duffs his tee shot and his wife hits a good one. Despite the lack of distance he can still get to the green with his 2nd but she can't. Because he's out they both wait to hit. Their balls are close enough that she could hit without much effort and there is no danger but because it's 20y past his she waits. Scenario #2. Because she's playing reds and the tees are 25y in front she waits to hit despite the group in front being out of her range.

I can feel your pain, it's just that I think the "guy waiting to hit because he's afraid of reaching a green he can't reach" part of it is way overblown.  You were being slowed down mostly by the fact that they were just flat out slow and didn't play ready golf.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Is it possible that the group "the waiters" are waiting on could play faster, but think they aren't being pushed because every time they look back they see a group that couldn't possibly reach the green standing around doing nothing? And around it goes.

Certainly.  But then that is on them.  What's the saying:  You position on the course is directly behind the group in front of you, not in front of the group behind you.

If we could sidetrack the conversation a teensy bit ... I would like to ask how long everybody waits to hit on par 3's?  Saturday, on one par 3, I hit when the group in front of us reached their cart (but they all hadn't gotten in and started driving away yet) because they were 30 yards right of the green anyways.  Of course, like an ass, I hit it right next to them.

My justification was that they were well away from the green and I didn't think I'd hit that wayward of a shot.  (I suck, lesson learned)  Additionally, the time it took for me to aim, swing, and for the ball to soar through the air was (hopefully) enough time for them to replace their clubs and get under the cover of the cart roof.