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bjoern2796

TOUR PRO's play fades with irons

25 posts in this topic

Hey,

I just watched the DP WORLD TOUR CHAMPIONSHIP in DUBAI.

Like in every tournament the TOUR PRO's hit almost every time a fade to the green, with wedges,irons and with woods.

It's an advantage because the ball will stop on the green quicker and you've got better control.

So we should play fades into the greens too ?

I will play fades into the greens in the future. My tee shots will be shaped like they are required too.

What do you think about it ? Would you play fades into the greens also ?

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A few hit it both directions depending on the hole position but, there are alot that hit their normal draw pattern on 98% of every shot they hit.

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Some pros hit fades. Some hit draws.

And sometimes the announcers flat out get things wrong and call a draw a fade or vice versa. I've been standing beside some of them when they say that. The viewer at home can't tell the difference because a ball against a sky doesn't appear to be curving at all.

And a pro's fade OR draw curves about two yards. They're not swooping around the sky. :)

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Then Tiger is swooping around the air

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OK, out of the top 10 players in the world:

McIlroy: Draw

Donald: Draw

Woods: Has played a draw, now seems to be hitting a lot of fades

Westwood: Fade

Scott: Draw

Oostie: Draw

Rose: Fade

Dufner: Fade

Simpson: Draw

Snedeker: Fade

I made an attempt to find each player's shape, if I couldn't find a definitive source I went by left/right tendency on the PGA site. You can all nitpick that player X hits Y shape, I don't care as this is just a quick point. Looks like 4.5/10 are faders while 5.5/10 hit a draw. Tiger is split because he's played great with both in his career. No indication that it actually makes a difference as far as OWGR. Both can work, as long as the player can generate the trajectory to get the ball high.

I think players don't work the ball much. With the exception of a few players, most will stick to a comfortable shape unless they feel they need to hit a different shot. And as was said, they mostly hit minor shapes of a couple yards either way. They're shaping it in a way that means they'll hit a green if they draw/fade, over draw/fade, or push/pull it straight. Aiming at the center of the green, their shot cone is tight enough to hit an area smaller than the whole green in most cases.

As for the fade stopping faster/draw being longer, it's a myth. It's not as if these players can't stop their ball on the green with a draw. You're talking 4 or 5 degrees of change in the spin axis, and people think it will affect the roll? It's almost all backspin, and any affect on roll is the result of contours on the ground. And many of the longest hitters like Mickelson and Bubba hit big fades, while Luke Donald is a relative short knocker who draws it. We also see both patterns relatively split in the GIR rankings, with Snedeker being the worst of the top 10 and a fader, though both shapes are relatively evenly distributed.

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Yes I know that Rory and Luke play a draw as their natural shot shape. But almost all of the 10 players will fade a ball from 120 yards. Rory aligns his feet like a shot that is going 6 yards or so left of the flag. But his Clubface points to the target. And he plays a fade !!! Yes his natural shot shape is a draw but he plays a fade with the wedges and most irons.
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Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

OK, out of the top 10 players in the world:

McIlroy: Draw

Donald: Draw

Woods: Has played a draw, now seems to be hitting a lot of fades

Westwood: Fade

Scott: Draw

Oostie: Draw

Rose: Fade

Dufner: Fade

Simpson: Draw

Snedeker: Fade

I made an attempt to find each player's shape, if I couldn't find a definitive source I went by left/right tendency on the PGA site. You can all nitpick that player X hits Y shape, I don't care as this is just a quick point. Looks like 4.5/10 are faders while 5.5/10 hit a draw. Tiger is split because he's played great with both in his career. No indication that it actually makes a difference as far as OWGR. Both can work, as long as the player can generate the trajectory to get the ball high.

I think players don't work the ball much. With the exception of a few players, most will stick to a comfortable shape unless they feel they need to hit a different shot. And as was said, they mostly hit minor shapes of a couple yards either way. They're shaping it in a way that means they'll hit a green if they draw/fade, over draw/fade, or push/pull it straight. Aiming at the center of the green, their shot cone is tight enough to hit an area smaller than the whole green in most cases.

As for the fade stopping faster/draw being longer, it's a myth. It's not as if these players can't stop their ball on the green with a draw. You're talking 4 or 5 degrees of change in the spin axis, and people think it will affect the roll? It's almost all backspin, and any affect on roll is the result of contours on the ground. And many of the longest hitters like Mickelson and Bubba hit big fades, while Luke Donald is a relative short knocker who draws it. We also see both patterns relatively split in the GIR rankings, with Snedeker being the worst of the top 10 and a fader, though both shapes are relatively evenly distributed.


Sorry, don't want to get into a fight over this but Donald is a renowned fader as his stock shot and I'm pretty sure Dufner hits a draw.

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Originally Posted by misty_mountainhop

Sorry, don't want to get into a fight over this but Donald is a renowned fader as his stock shot and I'm pretty sure Dufner hits a draw.

Dufner fades it. Luke tends to draw the ball more.

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Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

OK, out of the top 10 players in the world:

McIlroy: Draw

Donald: Draw

Woods: Has played a draw, now seems to be hitting a lot of fades

Westwood: Fade

Scott: Draw

Oostie: Draw

Rose: Fade

Dufner: Fade

Simpson: Draw

Snedeker: Fade

As for the fade stopping faster/draw being longer, it's a myth. It's not as if these players can't stop their ball on the green with a draw. You're talking 4 or 5 degrees of change in the spin axis, and people think it will affect the roll? It's almost all backspin, and any affect on roll is the result of contours on the ground. And many of the longest hitters like Mickelson and Bubba hit big fades, while Luke Donald is a relative short knocker who draws it. We also see both patterns relatively split in the GIR rankings, with Snedeker being the worst of the top 10 and a fader, though both shapes are relatively evenly distributed.

I actually though Westwood drew it but I could be wrong.  Saw him hit mostly draws on the range at the US Open.  Like Erik said most have pretty tight curves.

Originally Posted by iacas

Dufner fades it. Luke tends to draw the ball more.

Agree with Dufner fading it, face aiming just left of target at impact, medium trajectory.

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Yes I know that Rory and Luke play a draw as their natural shot shape. But almost all of the 10 players will fade a ball from 120 yards. Rory aligns his feet like a shot that is going 6 yards or so left of the flag. But his Clubface points to the target. And he plays a fade !!! Yes his natural shot shape is a draw but he plays a fade with the wedges and most irons.

I would think that most all players (save for maybe bubba) hit the ball, for all intents and purposes, STRAIGHT from 120.

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Rory is probably hitting a push shot into that green, than a fade from 120. Its very very hard to curve the ball with a wedge. Rory has a very high degree of inside to out swing path, to the point he was getting stuck last year if he doesn't keep the clubhead ahead of his hands. I doubt he would be fading the ball.

most players will play there stock shot, i think more people play a draw. To say all pros or majority play a fade with irons is probably false. I would like to see some source data on that through out the year on majority of iron shots played.

if you look at shot tracker, rory hits majority of his irons with a draw.

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Originally Posted by saevel25

if you look at shot tracker, rory hits majority of his irons with a draw.

Agree, also because Rory's path can be a little too far out to the right, he tends to hit it slightly heel center on the club face to tighten the draws and prevent over draws.  That pull hook he hit on the 10th tee at Augusta in 2011, very good chance that was off the toe.  Most, especially those darn commentators, will say he came over the top, which is wrong.

I think good golfers in general, low handicap players to pros, golfers that tend to have a flat left wrist at impact, will draw the ball.  The great faders, Nicklaus, Trevino, Couples just pre-set their path to the left at set-up.

Rory's driver numbers from 2010

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Originally Posted by mvmac

I actually though Westwood drew it but I could be wrong.  Saw him hit mostly draws on the range at the US Open.  Like Erik said most have pretty tight curves.

What do you mean by "tight curves"? I thought Erik meant "slight curves".

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

I think good golfers in general, low handicap players to pros, golfers that tend to have a flat left wrist at impact, will draw the ball.  The great faders, Nicklaus, Trevino, Couples just pre-set their path to the left at set-up.

Does this mean that Nicklaus/Trevino/Couples do/did not have flat left wrists?

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Trevino was NOT a fader of the ball....the perception that he had an open stance, which he did NOT have (formed by wannabe commentators who dribble BS and love the sound of their own voices).

pay attention around the 1:30 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU-YJIbu0wg&feature;=relmfu

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Originally Posted by luu5

What do you mean by "tight curves"? I thought Erik meant "slight curves".

Same thing.


Originally Posted by luu5

Does this mean that Nicklaus/Trevino/Couples do/did not have flat left wrists?

I don't understand how what he said could be taken that way. They had flat left wrists. They simply oriented the path left to hit a fade.

Originally Posted by notsohard

Trevino was NOT a fader of the ball....the perception that he had an open stance, which he did NOT have (formed by wannabe commentators who dribble BS and love the sound of their own voices).

Trevino hit a push-fade. The ball fell to the right. His path was well to the right of his body lines but because his body lines were so far left his path was a degree or so left of his face. As with most PGA Tour players, it faded two yards or so, but it faded. Almost no pros hit straight shots because they're always curving away from the target.

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Originally Posted by iacas

Same thing.

Tight=slight? My English sure needs brushing.

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Originally Posted by luu5

Tight=slight? My English sure needs brushing.

Tight in the sense that it stays close (tight) to the target line, slight in the sense that it has just a little bit (slight) movement.

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