2013 WM Phoenix Open Discussion Thread

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Discrimination was practiced across the board, to our national shame, so so don't try raising that flag.  It was rampant in all occupations, and it still hasn't been totally resolved, so golf is the least of that problem.

Golf and the PGA embraced it's WASP roots as long as possible and was not forced into changing until the 1990's whereas the other major sports were well integrated 40 years earlier. Even today golf at it's highest levels is nearly 100% white with players coming from privileged backgrounds. Today much of this is cultural but the history of that culture goes back decades.

Getting back on point, the Auld game needs more like the 16th hole in Phoenix.

[WWBDD]

Originally Posted by MSchott

Getting back on point, the Auld game needs more like the 16th hole in Phoenix.

... and maybe a good windmill hole.

[WWBDD]

Awesome Phil.

What hole was the putt that kissed off the fringe at the edge of the green? That was wizardry.

[mvmac]

[tristanhilton85]

Almost seems like we're back to where we were a couple of years ago with Tiger and Phil winning in back to back weeks.

[phan52]

The caddie races are a bit much.

I think it's very cool, adds to the party atmosphere of the hole. The players know it's coming. Harrington specifically entered the tournament to experience it. I thought it was cool on Saturday when he was punting balls into the stands. Says it was the first time he kicked an American football.

[phan52]

You want that, go to a football, baseball, hockey game and leave golf in peace.  That crap has no place in the auld game.   It kept the GGO from ever becoming more than a curiosity, and they were eventually told by the Tour to tone it down or they'd go elsewhere.  Watching Bradley and Haas blow short putts today on 16 is just the sort of thing that could get it shut off. A few complaints from the players and the Tour will act. .

Never. The tour digs it and promotes it and it brings people in who normally would ignore the game. It's a phenomenon that is not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Valleygolfer]

Originally Posted by phan52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You want that, go to a football, baseball, hockey game and leave golf in peace.  That crap has no place in the auld game.   It kept the GGO from ever becoming more than a curiosity, and they were eventually told by the Tour to tone it down or they'd go elsewhere.  Watching Bradley and Haas blow short putts today on 16 is just the sort of thing that could get it shut off. A few complaints from the players and the Tour will act..

Never. The tour digs it and promotes it and it brings people in who normally would ignore the game. It's a phenomenon that is not going anywhere anytime soon.

It is a cool thing to look forward to every year. I wish the rest of the year, the "mashed potato" dumbasses would just shut up and go to this tournament to behave like idiots.

[CanuckAaron]

Originally Posted by mvmac

For me this is the kind of thing that will help grow the game, players with personalities that actually look like they are enjoying themselves.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by CanuckAaron

For me this is the kind of thing that will help grow the game, players with personalities that actually look like they are enjoying themselves.

I agree, and that's why I also don't mind an occasional display of anger. Robots are boring.

[RonTheSavage]

Im sooooo over Gangnam Style, but that was pretty cool.

[iacas]

A guy on Facebook who teaches "one swing" said somewhere that Phil is a "mediocre ball striker at best." Why? Because Phil doesn't swing much like his ideal swing, so that must make Phil a bad PGA Tour pro.

I countered with 40 (at the time) PGA Tour wins is not a "mediocre" ball striker. He said "he's won less since switching to Butch" (ah, so he doesn't like Butch, I got it now). Yet he won 31 times in over 15 years before Butch, and has won ten times now in five years (almost exactly) with Butch, despite being older, facing stiffer competition, having developed arthritis, etc. So... yeah.

BTW, I've said Phil Mickelson's swing isn't one you'd necessarily teach anyone (true also of Furyk, etc.), but he's got all 5 Simple Keys® ;) and I stand by the "wouldn't teach it" comment. :D

[Beachcomber]

Did you guys see this? LOL

[eich41]

Originally Posted by CraiginKSA

From ESPN:

Those are NASCAR-like numbers.  How is that bad for the game?  The pros know what thery're getting into when they sign up for this event.  Just as they know what they are getting when they play at Augusta, the Old Course, or Torrey Pines.  I don't see this type of stadium atmosphere trending, but I don't see a problem with one stop on the tour.

These guys all paid their dues at munis, on the mini tours or at universities where the only crowds were family and friends.  Now they're teeing it up with 20,000 drunk fans ready to praise or punish depending on the stroke.  It's a feaking 8-iron for most of them.  How hard can that be?

This tournament is a positive thing for the game of golf.  While you certainly wouldn't want this type of atmosphere at every tournament, it's great at an early season, "no-name" tournament.  Think about how many people who aren't avid golf fans attend this tournament?  While the atmosphere may draw them in, it's the live action of the talented golfers that will keep them there.  I frequently tell non-golf fans that if they attended a live tournament, not only would they be in awe of the talent of these guys, but they'd have a really good time watching it.

Most of the guys playing love that atmosphere.  Bubba was throwing free swag into the stands on his way to the green, Harrington was kicking footballs, Huh went gangnum style, etc.  It's a fun atmosphere and it breathes some life into a sport that can sometimes become too "dry" for it's own good (see the number of posters here who have their panties in a wad over one hole at one golf tournament).  Any pro who can't handle the pressure of hitting an 8 iron into a huge green and getting booed if he misses is welcome to skip the tourney and get ready for Pebble.  Do you really think that most of these pros are that mentally weak that they're scared of being booed?  Watch the tournament more closely next time, most of them laugh it off.

Like I said, I wouldn't want this to become the norm, and there's no indication that it is, but it's a positive for the game of golf and growing the golfing fan base.  All of those who are all worked up over this are the reason why the sport is declining in popularity.  The non-golfing public's perception of golf is that it's played by a bunch of rich, old, boring men who are uptight, ornery, and elitist.  While there is something to be said about respecting the history of the game, I don't think that one hole at a run of the mill early season tournament is going to ruin golf.  In fact it's the curmudgeony, uptight elitist that are holding golf back.

[Chas]

Agree. And for the Traditionalists in golf (of which number I am one), realize that what goes on at this event is one of golfer's well-established traditions. The players understand that and by agreeing to participate they have accepted it. If too many top players decided to give Phoenix a pass as a result, well that would be a different matter.

[JasonInRaleigh]

I am completely obsessed/ consumed with golf lately but have always felt that watching golf was proposterous.  I don't feel like that anymore of course. That being said....

I'm enjoying the WM tourney very much and I don't see how ratings and a broader array of enthusiasts could be a bad thing for any sport. What am I missing?

[Lefty-Golfer]

Originally Posted by eich41

This tournament is a positive thing for the game of golf.  While you certainly wouldn't want this type of atmosphere at every tournament, it's great at an early season, "no-name" tournament.  Think about how many people who aren't avid golf fans attend this tournament?  While the atmosphere may draw them in, it's the live action of the talented golfers that will keep them there.  I frequently tell non-golf fans that if they attended a live tournament, not only would they be in awe of the talent of these guys, but they'd have a really good time watching it.

Most of the guys playing love that atmosphere.  Bubba was throwing free swag into the stands on his way to the green, Harrington was kicking footballs, Huh went gangnum style, etc.  It's a fun atmosphere and it breathes some life into a sport that can sometimes become too "dry" for it's own good (see the number of posters here who have their panties in a wad over one hole at one golf tournament).  Any pro who can't handle the pressure of hitting an 8 iron into a huge green and getting booed if he misses is welcome to skip the tourney and get ready for Pebble.  Do you really think that most of these pros are that mentally weak that they're scared of being booed?  Watch the tournament more closely next time, most of them laugh it off.

Like I said, I wouldn't want this to become the norm, and there's no indication that it is, but it's a positive for the game of golf and growing the golfing fan base.  All of those who are all worked up over this are the reason why the sport is declining in popularity.  The non-golfing public's perception of golf is that it's played by a bunch of rich, old, boring men who are uptight, ornery, and elitist.  While there is something to be said about respecting the history of the game, I don't think that one hole at a run of the mill early season tournament is going to ruin golf.  In fact it's the curmudgeony, uptight elitist that are holding golf back.

well written, I may not want it to become the norm but if golf would take a lesson from it only good things would follow.

think about this, golfers need complete silence to play the typical round unless it not an option - they then embrace it and preform every bit as well they normally would.

I thought Paddy was awesome, i never would have guessed he get into the momment and enjoy like he did...and i have never been a fan of his but he went up quite a bit in my book.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Golfer

well written, I may not want it to become the norm but if golf would take a lesson from it only good things would follow.

think about this, golfers need complete silence to play the typical round unless it not an option - they then embrace it and preform every bit as well they normally would.

I thought Paddy was awesome, i never would have guessed he get into the momment and enjoy like he did...and i have never been a fan of his but he went up quite a bit in my book.

I'm mixed on the whole noise vs silence debate.

On one hand, I love watching our tourney in Phoenix.  I love that fans at the 16 are cheering like they're at the opening hole of the Ryder Cup.  I love the boos for missing the green on 16, but not so much for missing putts.

To me, it's exhibition golf.  It's like the All-Star Game in MLB.  It's like the Pro Bowl in the NFL.  It's like the All-Star Race in NASCAR.  It's the spirit of an exhibition tourney that carries a decent payoff for performing well.  I don't think any pro who plays it expects it to have the same atmosphere as the Masters, so it's fine with me.  And it certainly does attract a lot of new blood to the sport, at least to watch.  The 16th is the "place to be" for folks in the area.  I wish more were going to actually watch golf rather than party, but so be it.

On the other hand, I'm used to playing in a quiet atmosphere on my courses and I've been known to step back from a teed ball when someone starts talking during my backswing.  Maybe if I had always been subjected to it, it wouldn't bother me as much.  I mean, the ER's I've worked in were never quiet atmospheres but I never had a problem putting a "tough" IV in or sewing someone up when it was noisy.  It's a matter of what you're used to.

If there was noise on every hole, I have a feeling I'd get used to it, I would adapt, and I would learn to block it out (much like I've learned to block out the voice in my head that constantly screams at me before every 6 foot putt "don't leave it short, Alice!!").  So do I think pros can adapt quickly?  Yeah...and if they say they can't I think they're just being whiners and looking for another excuse that they're not playing like they'd like to be.

But I'd still rather have a quiet home course than one filled with guys who started their golf experience by watching the WM and thinking that golf etiquette had somehow evolved to mean they don't have to respect those traditions of keeping your mouth shut when another guy is hitting.