DIY MOI matching

[jclark]

Messing with MOI essentially changes the amount of rotation on your club when swinging. I don't know if I would mess with that since mech. Engineers built a specific moi into each Club for a reason. Im wondering if it will affect cg. I would play with raising our lowering CG to help my swing before messing with MOI. Just me.... I can tell you are an engineer :-)

[billchao]

Hitting it high is fine. Your swing speed is likely 96-102

Irons, steel stiff flex 95-110 gram- nothing elaborate

Hybrid, graghite stiff- 70-80g max

fairways, graphite stiff -70gram max

Driver, graphite stiff 57- < 65g  10+ degree.

Hitting your driver with a steel 100+gram shaft, with a low trajectory, you are lucky to hit 180-200 yards.

I was under the impression that there is no rule of thumb for heavy vs. light shafts. From what I've read, results seem varied and it really depends on the individual. Some people with slower swing speeds benefit from a heavier shaft, and some from a lighter shaft. Don't the same results occur with higher swing speeds, too? Aren't there other variables at play, too, like torque and kick point and such? Basically, I'm just trying to understand why a player with a slower swing speed couldn't play a heavier shaft.

All of my questions above really illustrate the importance of proper club fitting... sorry if any of that is OT.

[saevel25]

Generally better players and stronger players like heavier shafts because they can feel the club more and can control the club better. This isn't swing weight, more overall weight,

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfisher

Hitting it high is fine. Your swing speed is likely 96-102

Irons, steel stiff flex 95-110 gram- nothing elaborate

Hybrid, graghite stiff- 70-80g max

fairways, graphite stiff -70gram max

Driver, graphite stiff 57- < 65g  10+ degree.

Hitting your driver with a steel 100+gram shaft, with a low trajectory, you are lucky to hit 180-200 yards.

I was under the impression that there is no rule of thumb for heavy vs. light shafts. From what I've read, results seem varied and it really depends on the individual. Some people with slower swing speeds benefit from a heavier shaft, and some from a lighter shaft. Don't the same results occur with higher swing speeds, too? Aren't there other variables at play, too, like torque and kick point and such? Basically, I'm just trying to understand why a player with a slower swing speed couldn't play a heavier shaft.

All of my questions above really illustrate the importance of proper club fitting... sorry if any of that is OT.

This is me. I like a nice easy swing that feels good. I want to play a casual round of golf and not enter the Sottish Highland games.

Generally better players and stronger players like heavier shafts because they can feel the club more and can control the club better. This isn't swing weight, more overall weight,

Club fitters have gotten frustrated and I have gotten frustrated.

I tend to swing slower with more flexible shafts, because I can feel them "flopping" around and tend to swing them slower. If I have a stiffer shaft in hand, I tend to "push it" more because it does not have that "floppy" feel.

I can't help it, it's probably a reaction to avoid injuries or damage.

[vasaribm]

I've had my sticks MOI matched.  MOI matching is obviously best at time of construction, but mine were matched afterwards.  I believe lead powder was poured down the shaft and into the hosel with a small cork shoved down behind to keep everything in place.  I have a chart showing before/after stats and total weight added to each club. Unfortunately I don't have it here at work, so I will post it up this evening.

[saevel25]

The only problem I have with lead powder in the shaft it will shift the COG closer to the hosel, basically making centered hits more like a hit off the toe.

[boogielicious]

Generally better players and stronger players like heavier shafts because they can feel the club more and can control the club better. This isn't swing weight, more overall weight,

Swing weight is more of a balance point measurement. The scale balances the club a set distance from the handle end.  Increase in swing weight means weight from that fixed point is higher making the club head end feel heavier.  Overall weight is affected with increases, but it's not dramatic.  I can increase the swing weight of my driver from D2 to D5 with just 3 grams.

[vasaribm]

The only problem I have with lead powder in the shaft it will shift the COG closer to the hosel, basically making centered hits more like a hit off the toe.

Agree. It's is all dependent on how much weight needs to be added as well.  I highly doubt the COG of my clubs have changed by 1.5-2 inches, but I didn't have anywhere near 57 grams added either.  To clarify slightly how MOI was done for me, now that I have a chance to look at things, my 4-PW were done as stated above with powder in the shaft.  My wedges were built at the time of MOI matching and weight was added to the club head which would be the preferred method.

Here is the chart I have showing the changes.  19 grams was the most added to a club head, all other were 10 grams or less.

[Lihu]

Did the MOI matching help with improving your basic swing, or more of a refinement to shave off a couple strokes?

[vasaribm]

As a 15 Hcp...I would lean towards an improvement to the swing with a by product of saved strokes.  I want my swing to feel the same no matter the club I choose, meaning I want to feel like it takes the same effort to swing a 4i as it does 8i.  This is essentially what MOI matching achieves.  Since each club now requires similar effort, for me, I can more easily tell when tempo has increased or decreased, etc.  I also feel like I have better awareness of where the club is throughout the swing.

The common thread here is I wanted to a repeatable feel and MOI matching was a method I thought would help me get that.  It wasn't terribly expensive to have done either.  It works for me but I don't necessarily have any measurable stats to back it up.  It was all about how the club feels in my hands.

[vasaribm]

I used the word feel alot...  Another way to describe what I was looking for would be consistency.  My goal was to remove a variable from the equation.  The clubs are fitted and matched to me, so they can't be an excuse.  Any problems are my fault, not the clubs', and this helps me focus more on swing mechanics.

[Lihu]

This is more or less my line of thinking as well. Thanks for this confirmation.

[Spitfisher]

As a 15 Hcp...I would lean towards an improvement to the swing with a by product of saved strokes.  I want my swing to feel the same no matter the club I choose, meaning I want to feel like it takes the same effort to swing a 4i as it does 8i.  This is essentially what MOI matching achieves.  Since each club now requires similar effort, for me, I can more easily tell when tempo has increased or decreased, etc.  I also feel like I have better awareness of where the club is throughout the swing. The common thread here is I wanted to a repeatable feel and MOI matching was a method I thought would help me get that.  It wasn't terribly expensive to have done either.  It works for me but I don't necessarily have any measurable stats to back it up.  It was all about how the club feels in my hands.

[quote name="vasaribm" url="/t/71848/diy-moi-matching/18#post_937093"]I used the word feel alot...  Another way to describe what I was looking for would be consistency.  My goal was to remove a variable from the equation.  The clubs are fitted and matched to me, so they can't be an excuse.  Any problems are my fault, not the clubs', and this helps me focus more on swing mechanics.  [/quote] But don't you find you swing an 8 iron entirely differently than a 5 iron? one being steeper than the other? I know I do.

[vasaribm]

The angle of the swing plane is not important here.  The focus of MOI matching is the effort required to move the club.  If I blindfold myself, choose any iron at random, and swing it around; it is not readily apparent which iron I have chosen.  All irons are balanced similarly, this is what I mean by a 5i feels like an 8i.

[MS256]

Just an update on my mad-scientist attempt at strictly by feel MOI matching.

Couldn't find a suitable place on my R7s to put any lead on the club head. Even tried to fashion some lead to go inside the cavity and wedged between the back of the face and the inside face of the cavity. As I expected the club felt fine as far as swinging it, and the weight distribution felt fine. Unfortunately as I also thought might happen it affected the spring effect of the face and I hated the feel of impact with the lead in there.

Back to square one I added lead tape to the hostel instead. My fear with adding all of the weight to the hostel was that the MOI between the heel and toe (totally different thing from the MOI of the club) might change too much and cause the toe to rotate closed too fast. Turned out that wasn't the case at all and it was fine.

Ended up adding 9 grams to the PW, 7 grams to the 9 iron, 5.75 grams to the 8 iron, 3.25 grams to the 7 iron, and 2 grams to the 6 iron. The irons longer than that felt like the same MOI without doing anything to them.

Disclaimer: All of that was only going by my feel and could be a mile off from "correct", but since I don't know that and I'm hitting those clubs okay, and they feel much better than they did before, it's good enough until (or if) I decide it's not good enough.

My recommendation still remains that if you want to try to MOI match your clubs, let a club fitter do it.

Didn't do anything with the SW, GW, or LW yet but I probably will. (I'm rarely using any of those wedges on this dormant grass right now anyway).

[Lihu]

Would you feel confident taking those tuned clubs on the course? The hosel makes sense. I will try adding bits of lead to the hosel. I am planning on regripping my irons, this might be the time to try the lead granules. I'll cut a hole off the butt and leave a channel to put lead granules. I have the 3d accelerometer to take measurements.

[MS256]

Would you feel confident taking those tuned clubs on the course?

The hosel makes sense. I will try adding bits of lead to the hosel. I am planning on regripping my irons, this might be the time to try the lead granules. I'll cut a hole off the butt and leave a channel to put lead granules. I have the 3d accelerometer to take measurements.

Oh yeah. I definitely am hitting them better than I was before and I was confident then. Worst case scenario it won't help much. Best case scenario it will help a lot.

I actually was supposed to have a game today but it was supposed to start at 10:30 and everybody decided to wait until 11:30 to play to let the course dry up some. That was going to put me in an "iffy" situation because I have to go to work this afternoon so I decided I better just skip playing. I didn't want to get on about the 15th hole of a team game and have to call it a day and let my teammates down.