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mvmac

Trackman and FlightScope Devices Take Guessing out of Equation

67 posts in this topic

Article on how these high-tech tools provides important swing data for the world's best players

http://www.pgatour.com/news/2014/07/01/trackman-instruction-tiger-woods.html

Quote:

When Tiger Woods has a question about his swing, coach Sean Foley doesn’t necessarily want to see the swing on video.

“I’d rather see the numbers,” Foley says. “They allow me to know I’m making a far more educated opinion.”

The “they” refers to the readings spit out by TrackMan, the portable gray and orange box that has been popping up more and more on driving ranges across the PGA TOUR in recent years.

“Tiger sees the numbers and it helps him understand certain things,” Foley continued. “It’s 2014; why would we continue to guess what we can measure?”

It’s a valid question. Enter TrackMan, the souped-up launch monitor that takes the guesswork out of the game by using radar technology to provide precision swing and ball flight analysis.

Formed just over a decade ago by Dr. Klaus Eldrup-Jorgensen, his brother Morten and Fredrik Tuxen, the Danish technology company manufactures and sells three-dimensional flight measurement equipment that is used in a number of sports.

Eldrup-Jorgensen, who played for the Danish National Team and has a background on the research side of the medical device world, was curious about how golf could be analyzed. Tuxen’s resume, meanwhile, includes being a leading radar engineer who designed a two-ton Doppler radar system that could track a Trident missile leaving the earth’s atmosphere.

Early versions of TrackMan were sold to a handful of major manufactures for $200,000 each and by 2006 the PGA TOUR was on board, too, using it to track ball flight and provide data on tee shots in its tournaments.

trackman-847-trackman
Detailed TrackMan swing data from Jason Dufner in 2013, including launch angle, club speed and spin rate. (Courtesy of TrackMan)

The popularity of the device that measures 26 different parameters -- everything from club and ball speed, to spin rate, to carry distance and so on -- has only continued to grow. There are more than 350 licensed facilities in the U.S., a number of college programs use it and more than 150 TOUR players own or have used the $25,000 machine.

“I think you try and confirm feel and real,” Woods said last year. “A lot of times in this game what we're feeling that we're doing is not exactly what we're doing. As you make swing changes, you make slight alterations, you start realizing what it does at impact, and what that can translate into in the performance of a golf ball.

“Is it transformational? I think it is if you understand how to do it.”

And for many it’s becoming a necessary tool.

As Luke Donald churned through various drivers in an early-week practice session at TPC Sawgrass during this year’s PLAYERS Championship, his coach Chuck Cook barked out a series of numbers that were showing up on his iPad via TrackMan.

“The game is very much based on technology now and you have to keep up with the curve,” says Donald, who purchased his own device earlier this year. “For example, if I’m hitting downward too much I don’t have to have Chuck around looking at me every day. I can show him the numbers and my swing and between that figure out what we have to do.”

On this particular day, Donald figured out that one driver he was testing was peeling off to the right too much. But with TrackMan he can also find things not discernible to the naked eye.

“Maybe I’m getting 2-3 more mph speed out of one of them, which gives you five or six more yards,” Donald says. “For me, that’s big.”

So too is the danger of getting caught in a numbers game, which is why some are cautious when using it.

“I do look at the path of my swing but try not to get caught up in (the numbers),” says Keegan Bradley. “That can get you a little sideways. You can become too number-oriented in this game and you have to separate yourself from it and leave it at home.”

Jordan Spieth does just that, letting his coach Cameron McCormick disseminate the data rather than choosing to purchase his own TrackMan.

“I look for too much and that’s not good for me,” said Spieth, a feel player who believes less is more. “But for some guys it’s really good to know all the details.”

As for those who argue that TrackMan has taken the feel out of the game and produced robotic swings, quite the opposite is true insists Foley.

There are only two fixed positions in the swing -- the setup and finish -- and the high-tech system has actually made things simpler.

“I want to be right in the middle between true science and Harvey Penick,” says Foley, who when he first got the device would bring it to the driving range at Orange County National to soak in the swings of amateurs. “But it has just helped me put a magnifying glass on what I’m trying to do. It helps you alleviate the doubt.”

And there’s little doubt about TrackMan’s place in today’s game.

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You can bet if I had the $$$ I would be all in on a Trackman ... balls deep!

I am a believer in the numbers ...

:-)

I

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That they do.

They're good for average players too, particularly in helping them achieve good driving numbers. They can also demonstrate very quickly to the student who is, for example, working on his path whether a "feel" needs to be done more or less to achieve the desired results.

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That they do. They're good for average players too, particularly in helping them achieve good driving numbers. They can also demonstrate very quickly to the student who is, for example, working on his path whether a "feel" needs to be done more or less to achieve the desired results.

I totally agree with you man. I wasn't sold at first but I swing so far from the inside every time I felt like I was swinging more left it would still read right:-( Took a couple real deliberate feels to get the path number better. I will say though you have to be careful with these devices as they can be real dangerous in the wrong hands or used by people who don't get how the learning process works. The swords came from someone I trust:-D

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I will say though you have to be careful with these devices as they can be real dangerous in the wrong hands or used by people who don't get how the learning process works.

That's probably true of nearly every tool ever made for any purpose.

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From Trackman's website, there are a few locations north of Cinci, probably about an hour away.

Personally I don't know anyone who has one.

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From Trackman's website, there are a few locations north of Cinci, probably about an hour away.

Personally I don't know anyone who has one.


We just need to win the lottery and get one. ;-)

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My coach has FlightScope and it's already been a big help. The numbers are verification I've been able to process the changes. When I get my summary videos he clearly points out via before and after swings how the numbers were affected by the tweaks we made. It's going to be a game changer for me.

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We just need to win the lottery and get one. ;-)

We have three FlightScopes in Erie.

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We have three FlightScopes in Erie.

True. It's a bit of a drive there though. Then again, if I win the lottery, I can buy a private jet. B-)

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We have three FlightScopes in Erie.

That's nowhere near my house. Just think of what I could do if I owned one of those :drool:

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Personally a TM or FS without proper instruction to make necessary changes wouldn't be much help. When my coach tells me to do something like change the path of the club it takes more than just doing it to accomplish the desired result. Typically have to exaggerate things before it happens. I am certain I wouldn't do the same things he has me doing. It would and does feel so strange there is no way I would convince myself it was right if he didn't explain why it is. Even with him standing right there it takes nearly constant reminding to do it every single time. After a dozen swings or so I start moving back to my usual position if he isn't guiding me.

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Personally a TM or FS without proper instruction to make necessary changes wouldn't be much help. When my coach tells me to do something like change the path of the club it takes more than just doing it to accomplish the desired result. Typically have to exaggerate things before it happens. I am certain I wouldn't do the same things he has me doing. It would and does feel so strange there is no way I would convince myself it was right if he didn't explain why it is. Even with him standing right there it takes nearly constant reminding to do it every single time. After a dozen swings or so I start moving back to my usual position if he isn't guiding me.

But the monitor is right there to tell you if you are indeed making a change to your pattern, or not. It provides additional feedback, much like video does (vs practicing with no video). Maybe you'd require an instructor or at least more knowledge to understand and interpret the information, but I still think it would help quite a bit. Instant feedback means you can make quick adjustments, rather than finishing up a practice session only to find out you weren't doing something properly.

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But the monitor is right there to tell you if you are indeed making a change to your pattern, or not. It provides additional feedback, much like video does (vs practicing with no video).

Maybe you'd require an instructor or at least more knowledge to understand and interpret the information, but I still think it would help quite a bit. Instant feedback means you can make quick adjustments, rather than finishing up a practice session only to find out you weren't doing something properly.


Like I said the changes feel strange enough I wouldn't be able to get there on my own. Wouldn't even think to try what he has me do purely based on how different it feels. It's more than the numbers you have to know what to do to get there. I've been swinging a golf club daily for just over two years. Not once have I stumbled into what he has me doing now. For me the feels led to the numbers changing not the other way around.

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Like I said the changes feel strange enough I wouldn't be able to get there on my own. Wouldn't even think to try what he has me do purely based on how different it feels. It's more than the numbers you have to know what to do to get there. I've been swinging a golf club daily for just over two years. Not once have I stumbled into what he has me doing now. For me the feels led to the numbers changing not the other way around.

I agree with you about having a good instructor, and what they can do for you. All I'm saying is that having a radar monitor can still be more useful than not having one, with or without attached instruction.

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I agree with you about having a good instructor, and what they can do for you.

All I'm saying is that having a radar monitor can still be more useful than not having one, with or without attached instruction.


It could also lead to developing more swing flaws. Example ever had a lesson and the instructor asked you to do something only to learn how you attempted to do it was the wrong way. All I'm saying is just because a launch monitor shows you were able to get to a desired number doesn't mean you did it correctly.

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It could also lead to developing more swing flaws. Example ever had a lesson and the instructor asked you to do something only to learn how you attempted to do it was the wrong way. All I'm saying is just because a launch monitor shows you were able to get to a desired number doesn't mean you did it correctly.

I'd love the experts' take on this. The way I see it, if I'm hitting optimal numbers on a reliable launch monitor, how can it possibly be wrong?

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