how many people do you know that lie about their score?

Is the shift key on you computer broken?

I find lying is less of an issue than people not knowing how to calculate their scores.

And I agree that you should probably get that shift key looked at.

I think more people should use a simple counter (as I do), and count each shot, even the chip out from behind that tree. When I hear people say "I'll take a six on that hole" you know they really got a seven or eight. Plus I see people fluffing their ball, taking gimmies and not counting them and any number of other thing to lower their score. I consider that lying about the scores.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuffluck 

Quote:

Originally Posted by NM Golf 

Is the shift key on you computer broken?

 

 

not happening, too lazy to use it.

 

 

You just don't get it do you? You don't realize what a pain in the ass it is to read your long posts without that sort of differentiation?  Or you are so wrapped in yourself that you just don't care what anyone else thinks?

Agree. How much energy does pressing Shift really drain from you?

And, you must play with a lot of suck-ass players. Most of the folks I play with at my club play the ball down and are between 4 - 12 caps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dak4n6 

Agree. How much energy does pressing Shift really drain from you?

 

And, you must play with a lot of suck-ass players. Most of the folks I play with at my club play the ball down and are between 4 - 12 caps.

The good players are out there, but they certainly are not in the majority of casual golfers.

Better players tend to play with other better players, and vice versa.  There are exceptions.....one of our group is a 23 hcp and plays with the rest of us, most of whom are in the mid-to-low single digit range, but that's somewhat unusual. 

You'll also seldom find better players out by themselves, looking to get paired up with the stray group.  They tend to play quite a bit and tend to have a pretty good sized group of other (better) players to pick and choose from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuffluck 

so i know there are good golfers in the world other than the select crowd on this forum and other similar forums.  though i play a lot of golf at a lot of different courses and most of the time i go alone.  therefore i have been paired with a whole lot of random people over the years.  in my two years of playing i'd have to guess i have played close to 150 rounds and probably half of those i've been paired with 2-3 people i didn't know.  so let's say i've played with 150 different people in the last two years. 

 

of those people, i would say only about a dozen were able to play in the 80s or better and maybe 2-3 that shot in the 70s or better.  my numbers could be slightly off since i didn't take a tally, but thinking back i can only remember a few instances where decent golfers played with me.  point is, very seldom do i see people play to under a 20 handicap.  i see people that appear to play well only to later have a blow up hole and pick up their ball and not even finish it once they've reached the double digits.  i have no idea what their scorecard says at the end of the day, but anyone that puts a score down less than 90 when they don't even finish a hole that was already at a 10 on that hole has to be lying about their score.

 

at any rate, i'm just wondering where all the good golfers are and if there really are all that many.  what do you guys think is the percentage of average golfers that can shoot in the 70s, the 80s, etc. taking proper score?  and what do you think the percentage of average golfers are that do not take score properly or even remotely close to properly?  i'd have to say that number has to at least be in the 50% range, because i have even played with guys who before the round said the usually shoot in the 80s and when they play with me they don't break 100 by my (proper) scoring.

Tends to be the higher handicap golfers in my experience, there are so many complex rules in golf that its hard to say its cheating or anything.. But people should have a better understanding of the game IMO.

Shift key aside, I think what you see is, people who are high handicappers, are really just recreational golfers.  They are not that concerned with a score or playing strictly my the rules of the game, which IMHO, is fine.  No different than a pick game of basketball or a game of flag football, not every round of golf has to be played for a handicap.  There are a lot of golfers who simply enjoy being outside and a relatively quite setting for several hours and that is still good for the game of golf.

All that being said, I still have no doubt that while most of us play by the rules and don't intentional cheat, we have all written the wrong score on a score card more than once.  If the guys who play for a living don't always know all the rules, than neither do the rest of us.

Lastly, there is the equitable score control table, which removes the effect of abnormally high individual hole scores by establishing a maximum score per hole depending on the player's handicap index. For example, a golfer with a course handicap of 20 through 29 can record a maximum of 8 strokes on any one hole for handicap calculation purposes only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetroJFrancisco 

 

Tends to be the higher handicap golfers in my experience, there are so many complex rules in golf that its hard to say its cheating or anything.. But people should have a better understanding of the game IMO.

I agree with this.  More of the players I've known who come up with an incorrect total do so out of either ignorance (that is, not even realizing they have broken a few rules during play), or they just don't care.  They either aren't playing with anything on the line, or the group they play with always plays by their own set of "special" rules.  In either case, they aren't cheating, because there is no victim.  In order for it to be cheating, someone has to be hurt by it.  There has to an intent to gain an advantage in an underhanded manner.  Simply not playing by the rules isn't cheating anyone, except maybe yourself.  

Apart from ESC, there is another scoring system approved by the USGA that recreational golfers can use...

Stableford scores points as follows...

Rule 32

Bogey, Par and Stableford Competitions

b. Stableford Competitions

The scoring in Stableford competitions is made by points awarded in relation to a fixed score at each hole as follows:

The winner is the competitor who scores the highest number of points.

The marker is responsible for marking only the gross number of strokes at each hole where the competitor’s net score earns one or more points.

Stableford scoring is a legitimate way for high handicappers/recreational golfers to limit the number of strokes (pick up when no chance to score) and thus avoid delaying play. No need to hit more than double bogey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt 

 

I agree with this.  More of the players I've known who come up with an incorrect total do so out of either ignorance (that is, not even realizing they have broken a few rules during play), or they just don't care.  They either aren't playing with anything on the line, or the group they play with always plays by their own set of "special" rules.  In either case, they aren't cheating, because there is no victim.  In order for it to be cheating, someone has to be hurt by it.  There has to an intent to gain an advantage in an underhanded manner.  Simply not playing by the rules isn't cheating anyone, except maybe yourself.  

Its funny you say that about cheating yourself, because golf may be one of the only sports in which cheating could only harm your chances of winning in the future.. You cheat, your handicap goes down, you win less.. Its quite remarkable.. haha.

In my experience at least 90% of the golfers I have ever been around keep their score incorrectly and/or "cheat" by improving their lies or taking gimmes, or all of the above. It's amazing how few people actually shoot what they claim they shoot.

Probably wouldn't go as far to say people lie about their scores just that their scores aren't accurate. The 2 mulligans a round and 3' gimme putt guy that is really quite a few strokes from truly knowing the score. I play with people like that quite a bit. Really depends what your goals are. Personally I use my scores and stats as a way to monitor progress. It would be pointless to put in the amount of practice time I've subjected myself to in the past year to be oblivious about the affect. But as mentioned some of it is pure ignorance. The guy that grounds a club in a hazard taking a practice stroke as he prepares for a miracle shot to get his round back on track. No penalty of distance when OB, foot wedge instead of taking an unplayable lie penalty etc. Pretty common among the weekend warrior types. Personally I want to remember those mistakes. When I get ready to head out after putting up a 45 on the front I want the sting of the mistakes to inspire me to avoid it coming in. Mentally I like the challenge of being patient and playing as smart as I can to overcome what in most instances is a unlucky bounce here and there.

Everyone I play with is very liberal with the gimme's, which betters their hcp.      I don't think they look at it as cheating, more of a gentlemans agreement or something.     They almost get offended when they give me a 3 footer & i want to putt it out ... and occasionally miss - then, boy do I get it from them - SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THE GIMME.   Yeah right, its really irritating.     I could see giving a grips length for a gimme to keep the game moving, but offering 2-3 ft gimmes irritate the snot out of me.     They go so far as to look at me for permission to pick up a 2.5 footer & get all pouty when I make them putt it out.    Just adds tension to the game.

And yes, as long as we're talking about things that irritate me, the OP's lack of using a shift key qualifies ... first time I've ever seen anybody do that & I've been on various internet forums since Al Gore invented them ... pretty bizarre actually.

I can not comment on the people knowing what they are doing or not, it would be up to them to understand the game. But if they have not played with others that fully understand the rules I am sure that is one factor in all this.There are a lot of very honest people out there, most of what I see they are just there to have a great day out.

What i see more then not is the following.

1. Not putting out so the score is one less, I see this a lot.

2. Taking a drop and not counting it correctly, again they may not know?

I don't worry what others are doing, I have put my card away for a while to focus on my shots. But my Father in Law is a prime example, I know he does not fully count, his issue not mine. He also turns in his scores so in the end it will hurt him. He even told my wife that I was not keeping a score card the last few weeks for some reason like that matters to her or to me.