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Is Sergio Garcia a One or Two Plane Golfer?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Is Sergio Garcia a one or two plane golfer and can someone describe the difference
post #2 of 18

A one-plane golfer tracks the same path on his backswing as his downswing.

 

A two-plane golfer has a downswing that has a different path than his backswing.

 

I asked my golf pro whether I had a one-plane or a two-plane swing, and he told me not to worry about it. He said it was more important to be consistent.

post #3 of 18

Two. The water plane and the grass plane.

 

Ok I'm terrible at humor.

post #4 of 18

There are so many definitions of swing planes that this thread could get interesting (and maybe leave our heads spinning).a3_biggrin.gif

 

I go with this definition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izp9Jrirk1Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp

By that definition Sergio has a one plane swing, but he is one of the few golfers that returns the shaft as low or lower at impact than he was at address.

post #5 of 18

Hey, guys. I was just messing around here and made a video about this just now. Just experimenting of course. Please chime in if I said something wrong as I always welcome being corrected so I can improve too.

 

Here's my vid though on this:

 

post #6 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

Hey, guys. I was just messing around here and made a video about this just now. Just experimenting of course. Please chime in if I said something wrong as I always welcome being corrected so I can improve too.

Here's my vid though on this:



Awesome! A few things I would look at: (1) Sergio looks to be a bit more one-plane than he was early on in his career; (2) you're comparing Sergio with a wedge to Freddie with a driver (you'd probably find the same results if they were using the same clubs, though maybe not as pronounced); and (3) the way Sergio drops his hands without really starting down with his hips messes with the one-plane/two-plane stuff. Sort of like how there's no one perfect spot to define Ben Hogan's A4 because he started down with his hips before his arms were at the top, Sergio can go from his arm plane above the shoulder plane to one-plane before he even starts down with his body.

And if my voice wasn't so awful that it would shatter the windows in your house, maybe I'd make an Analyzr video about that. a3_biggrin.gif
post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

Hey, guys. I was just messing around here and made a video about this just now. Just experimenting of course. Please chime in if I said something wrong as I always welcome being corrected so I can improve too.

Here's my vid though on this:


Awesome! A few things I would look at: (1) Sergio looks to be a bit more one-plane than he was early on in his career; (2) you're comparing Sergio with a wedge to Freddie with a driver (you'd probably find the same results if they were using the same clubs, though maybe not as pronounced); and (3) the way Sergio drops his hands without really starting down with his hips messes with the one-plane/two-plane stuff. Sort of like how there's no one perfect spot to define Ben Hogan's A4 because he started down with his hips before his arms were at the top, Sergio can go from his arm plane above the shoulder plane to one-plane before he even starts down with his body.

And if my voice wasn't so awful that it would shatter the windows in your house, maybe I'd make an Analyzr video about that. a3_biggrin.gif

 

Haha! You should have!

 

All good points. I should've used driver Sergio. It's basically the same.

 

 

I also probably could've mentioned how hand depth changes, how there's a difference between arm lifting and being a pro with a 2-plane swing, etc. 

 

Also, this isn't the same stuff as when Johnny Miller or Nick Faldo says "he's right on plane" when referring to some pro's downswing. In that scenario, you really only have one option when swinging your club. You better be on plane. And that refers to the angle of the shaft relative to the tilted plane we play golf on.

 

Again, please correct me where wrong, guys! 

post #8 of 18

When I watched today, it seemed Sergio was dropping way less inside than I remember.

post #9 of 18

Sergio is a modern guy in tune with our high tech society.  He is a .com-plainer.

post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

 

 

Nice video, yeah agree with Jetfan, Sergio is a one planer.  Interesting thing is, if you cut off Couples and Sergio's arms at the top of the backswing, very similar looking torso positions.

post #11 of 18
It appears Sergio gets more wrist hinge on the downswing than the backswing - does anyone else see that?
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 Interesting thing is, if you cut off Couples and Sergio's arms at the top of the backswing, very similar looking torso positions.

 

Good point! Yea, both players' shoulders tilt a good amount downward. They're definitely not level shoulder turns.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan Jeff View Post

It appears Sergio gets more wrist hinge on the downswing than the backswing - does anyone else see that?

 

For sure! Go on Youtube, and you'll see that the vast majority of the comments on Sergio's swing videos are "OMG, LAG!!!" 

 

But yea, this is part of that "whip effect" people talk about with the golf swing. Make a motion like you're going to crack a whip, and you'll notice your wrist does the same thing. The wrist hinge increases at the start the "downswing" of the whipping motion. Some instructors say that if your wrist hinge is about 90 degrees at the top of the backswing, it should increase to about 80 degrees during the early moments of your downswing, or thereabouts.

 

Having said that (Curb reference), this video Mike made recently best explains how to go about creating said lag:        

 

                                                     

post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post

A one-plane golfer tracks the same path on his backswing as his downswing.

 

A two-plane golfer has a downswing that has a different path than his backswing.

 

That's not really the definition. Almost every golfer would be a two-plane golfer if that was the case, and someone like Jim Furyk would be a six-plane golfer. :D JetFan's "shoulders match the lead arm" is the definition (because it's not JetFan's, but Hardy's).

post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post

A one-plane golfer tracks the same path on his backswing as his downswing.

 

A two-plane golfer has a downswing that has a different path than his backswing.

 

That's not really the definition. Almost every golfer would be a two-plane golfer if that was the case, and someone like Jim Furyk would be a six-plane golfer. :D JetFan's "shoulders match the lead arm" is the definition (because it's not JetFan's, but Hardy's).

 

I'm getting off-topic here, but maybe this is my opportunity to post this video and make this point... or perhaps I should just put this on the thread "Elbow Positioning and Its Effect on the Downswing" instead as that seems to be the most relevant place based on a quick search I just did.

 

But when I saw Lee Westwood miss the ball this past week at the Players, I thought of the "steep to shallow" shaft angle on a good player's backswing and downswing, because its the perfect explanation for why he doesn't hit the tree going back, but does hit it going down:

 

 

Last off-topic post I'll make here. 

post #15 of 18

It defines the potion at the top of the back swing.

 

One-plane - left arm accross the shoulder line.

Two-plane - left arm above the shoulder line.

post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

 

Haha! You should have!

 

All good points. I should've used driver Sergio. It's basically the same.

 

 

I also probably could've mentioned how hand depth changes, how there's a difference between arm lifting and being a pro with a 2-plane swing, etc. 

 

Also, this isn't the same stuff as when Johnny Miller or Nick Faldo says "he's right on plane" when referring to some pro's downswing. In that scenario, you really only have one option when swinging your club. You better be on plane. And that refers to the angle of the shaft relative to the tilted plane we play golf on.

 

Again, please correct me where wrong, guys! 

 

"You'd better be on plane." But most pro golfers have a looping swing, backswing to a high position with the right arm showing a nice 90 degree angle between upper arm and forearm, then the right elbow goes down tight against the body in what is called "the magic move," which means the clubshaft and head approach the ball on a lower angle. Loop.
post #17 of 18
The only way you're not gonna have a loop in your swing is if on the backswing your right upper arm and elbow goes back to a tight position against your ribs and that is its position in the downswing.

Those who take their left arm back near shoulder plane often have a separation between right elbow and torso, and they bring the elbow in against the ribs on the downswing. But that alters the plane of the downswing, and so you can't say absolutely they have a one-plane swing. Yeah, it may be close to a one-plane swing compared to most swings, and maybe that's enough to make them fit the one-plane classification.
post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

 

But when I saw Lee Westwood miss the ball this past week at the Players, I thought of the "steep to shallow" shaft angle on a good player's backswing and downswing, because its the perfect explanation for why he doesn't hit the tree going back, but does hit it going down:

 

 

Yeah the shaft angle gets steep to shallow, "loop" but as you know lead arm tends to be "over the top" for a lot of the best players.  Meaning the lead arm is more inward at A3 than at A5.  Just because they're more turned away from the target at A3 than A5.  Sergio's arm depth is pretty similar at A3/A5.  More due to the way he increases his inclination than him trying to actually "loop" it.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post

The only way you're not gonna have a loop in your swing is if on the backswing your right upper arm and elbow goes back to a tight position against your ribs and that is its position in the downswing.

Those who take their left arm back near shoulder plane often have a separation between right elbow and torso, and they bring the elbow in against the ribs on the downswing. But that alters the plane of the downswing, and so you can't say absolutely they have a one-plane swing. Yeah, it may be close to a one-plane swing compared to most swings, and maybe that's enough to make them fit the one-plane classification.

 

Again, not the definition of a One Plane Swing, read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by EverythingGolf View Post

It defines the potion at the top of the back swing.

 

One-plane - left arm accross the shoulder line.

Two-plane - left arm above the shoulder line.

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