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Grip, stance and ball position is 80% and swing 20% ? Is this correct ?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

Hello Friends,

 

I am planning to take few more lessons and was talking to an instructor today at the range. He tells me that if the grip and stance are correct, 80% of the work is done. What happens during the swing is only 20% remaining and not very critical. Thus if your grip, stance and ball position are perfect, you can hit the ball well even if your swing is not perfect. I find this is too easy, too good to be true and thus hard to believe because I am still struggling with hitting the ball well after so many practice rounds and rounds on the course although I am not sure if my grip and stance are perfect.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Thanks

post #2 of 22
Ask him what the correct grip, stance and ball positions are and then ask him why all the pros are doing it wrong...

Edit* sorry, that sounded snarky. Not trying to be snarky with you but that "pro" is talking out of his ass. Always be wary of people who use made up and unmeasurable percentages to sell an idea. Next time he tells you that answer back that you heard on the Golf Channel that it's actually 63.8% grip, stance and ball position and 36.2% swing. Then tell him you won't be working with him because he's using out dated information.
post #3 of 22

Either he wanted to emphasize to you the importance of a good setup to a good golf swing, or you misheard or misinterpreted what he was saying.

post #4 of 22

I could happily stand in a set of snowboard bindings bolted to the ground with a fixed position tee and a "perfect grip" and still manage to draw or fade the ball.

Your "instructor" needs to do a little more studying methinks.

post #5 of 22
My first post was a little harsh. My point was that if you look at a large sample of good golfers whether they be low-handicap, scratch or pro, you'll see a very large variance in grip preference, stance preference and ball position preference.

I suspect that, if anything, that ratio would be the reverse. If you have a good swing you can probably get around OK with any grip, stance or ball position, maybe not as well as with your ideal set-up but still decent enough. If your swing has serious flaws no magical set-up is going to cure your ills, it may help but there's no miracles there.
post #6 of 22

I'm not trying to pile on, but I could teach someone who has never played golf to have a great stance and grip (notwithstanding the fact that there's no one perfect grip or stance), and they might still miss the golf ball six times out of ten.

post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfdude71 View Post
 

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Thanks

 

I don't know how The Golf Channel missed out on him instead of Michael Breed or Hall...

 

I don't know how to tell you this, but he is blowing smoke up your ...

post #8 of 22

Assigning percentages of success to aspects of a system can seem like a fool's folly. If you have a heart attack during the swing, heart health now becomes 100%of the success or failure of your swing.

 

I agree with your pro that setup, including grip, go a very long way toward giving you a chance at a good, consistent and repeatable swing. Inconsistent and bad setups make good ball striking less likely. 80% of success at setup? Who knows. But it is very important and not as easy as one might think to set up correctly every time -- day in and day out. Watch the pros using alignment sticks when they work on the range. They are always checking setup and they play every day.

 

I can say that in my personal experience, if I setup correctly and get the club into the right position on the backswing, I am going to hit the ball well every time. So, if you include the backswing, I'd say more than 80% of my work is done.

post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

My first post was a little harsh. My point was that if you look at a large sample of good golfers whether they be low-handicap, scratch or pro, you'll see a very large variance in grip preference, stance preference and ball position preference.

 

That's not really true. Among the top players of the game, there are very few differences. Their grip is neutral, within a few degrees or so.  Their ball position is within a few inches or so of being under their shirt logo.  Their stance is within a few degrees of being square to the target. Yes, there are outliers. Zack Johnson and Paul Azinger's grip. Lee Trevino and Fred Couples' alignment. Some will play the ball a little further forward or back.  But to say there are large variances is just not accurate.

 

And before everyone starts with the "grip doesn't matter" mantra, let me just say that someone can probably play OK golf with a bad grip, and bad setup, and bad ball position.  But wouldn't you want to give a beginning student  the best chance of success by showing him a way to hold the club and how to set up to the ball that works for the majority of good golfers?

post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
 

That's not really true. Among the top players of the game, there are very few differences. Their grip is neutral, within a few degrees or so.  Their ball position is within a few inches or so of being under their shirt logo.  Their stance is within a few degrees of being square to the target. Yes, there are outliers. Zack Johnson and Paul Azinger's grip. Lee Trevino and Fred Couples' alignment. Some will play the ball a little further forward or back.  But to say there are large variances is just not accurate.

 

And before everyone starts with the "grip doesn't matter" mantra, let me just say that someone can probably play OK golf with a bad grip, and bad setup, and bad ball position.  But wouldn't you want to give a beginning student  the best chance of success by showing him a way to hold the club and how to set up to the ball that works for the majority of good golfers?

That was the point I was trying to make, "someone can probably play OK golf with a bad grip and bad setup and bad ball position if they have a good swing", but if someone has a bad swing...

 

I do agree that set-up, including grip, is very important and being consistent with it will go a long way towards improving your golf but I don't buy the 80% of your work is done line. I believe it's the dynamic aspects of the swing that are the biggest differentiators between the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

To be REALLY good you need it all though, on that there is no argument.

post #11 of 22

I doubt the instructor meant it literally. If someone said that to me I would interpret it as it's tough to do anything right if you start wrong. No doubt there are noticeable variances in the best players in the world. But you know right away when you see someone doing the basics very wrong. An example would be the guys we see that fight a wicked slice. You know where their ball is going as soon as they step up to it.

post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyredcab View Post

 

I can say that in my personal experience, if I setup correctly and get the club into the right position on the backswing, I am going to hit the ball well every time. So, if you include the backswing, I'd say more than 80% of my work is done.

 

see, you added that part.  grip and ball position and posture do not automatically result in a good path.  how many people have you seen set up all nice and in line and then yank the club 3 feet inside on the backswing or loop it a foot wide coming down?

post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin007 View Post
 

 

see, you added that part.  grip and ball position and posture do not automatically result in a good path.  how many people have you seen set up all nice and in line and then yank the club 3 feet inside on the backswing or loop it a foot wide coming down?

If we walk to the first tee and meet two players for the first time, and the first guy sets up great on the tee, I take the bet that he is going to hit the ball well all day. If his buddy has grip and setup flaws, I take the bet that his compensations will make him inconsistent at best. Just saying… good ball strikers usually have good setups and grips. At least they have consistent set up and grips.

post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyredcab View Post

If we walk to the first tee and meet two players for the first time, and the first guy sets up great on the tee, I take the bet that he is going to hit the ball well all day. If his buddy has grip and setup flaws, I take the bet that his compensations will make him inconsistent at best. Just saying… good ball strikers usually have good setups and grips. At least they have consistent set up and grips.

Incorrect. Good setup and grip do not have a strong correlation to a good golf swing. That is why everyone has their own little quirks with the golf swing. Their are 5 things that need to be done well. Some tweaks in set up and grip can help out, but it isn't that big of a deal to the totality of the golf swing.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post


Incorrect. Good setup and grip do not have a strong correlation to a good golf swing. That is why everyone has their own little quirks with the golf swing. Their are 5 things that need to be done well. Some tweaks in set up and grip can help out, but it isn't that big of a deal to the totality of the golf swing.

As has been stated earlier, how many people with good swings have you ever seen that have poor setups and poor grips?  And, conversely, how many people with poor swings have some major issues with setup or grip as well?

post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
 

As has been stated earlier, how many people with good swings have you ever seen that have poor setups and poor grips?  And, conversely, how many people with poor swings have some major issues with setup or grip as well?

 

You're confusing causation with correlation (or something like that - I think you get what I mean even if I'm distracted by the Pens game to give it much thought).

 

Good players tend to have good everything, just as poor players tend to have poor everything. I can put someone who has never played golf in a perfect setup and grip, and they'll still miss the golf ball all the time.

 

Seriously, the proper grip and setup take five minutes, and after that a lot of actual things become far more important in improving that golfer. Claiming that it's 80% is indefensibly silly.

post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Good players tend to have good everything, just as poor players tend to have poor everything. I can put someone who has never played golf in a perfect setup and grip, and they'll still miss the golf ball all the time.

 

Seriously, the proper grip and setup take five minutes, and after that a lot of actual things become far more important in improving that golfer. Claiming that it's 80% is indefensibly silly.

I would agree that allocating any kind of percentage doesn't make sense, if that's what the OP's instructor did. And I'm sure that someone who has never played will have problems hitting the ball no matter what grip or setup they have.  But any good instructor will do all they can to allow his student to become successful, and that will include helping the student get into a good position.

post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
 

I would agree that allocating any kind of percentage doesn't make sense, if that's what the OP's instructor did. And I'm sure that someone who has never played will have problems hitting the ball no matter what grip or setup they have.  But any good instructor will do all they can to allow his student to become successful, and that will include helping the student get into a good position.

 

On that we agree, but you play devil's advocate a bit too hard on the importance of grip and setup sometimes. This is one of those times.

 

They're important. They're also really easy to correct and very quickly become not the top priority for any competent instructor.

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