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Care for the green and help my opponent

joekelly

By joekelly,
in Rules of Golf

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joekelly Great Member

joekelly

Let's say opponent and i both on the green.  He 15 feet and me 11 ft from cup.  But in his line of putt are horrid, gouged out spike marks poking up 2 feet from cup.  They don't bother me, not in my line.

But i can see his agony and offer to putt first.  He says sure, go ahead.  So i putt right into the cup.  Then i take my putter and tamp down spike marks around the cup, including all those in his line.

I step away and he putts.  Have either of us suffered a penalty?

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fr0sty Well Established Member

fr0sty

Opponent or fellow competitor? Did you sinking the putt win the hole? Did your opponent object to the repairs?

If this was match play and you won the hole there is no penalty because play of the hole is over.

It this is stroke play you incur a penalty under 1-2 and if your opponent approves of the action (tacitly or otherwise) he is penalized under 13-2

This is the relevant decision:

13-2/36

Competitor Sanctions Repair of Spike Damage on His Line of Putt by Fellow-Competitor

Q. If a fellow-competitor purposely improves the competitor's line of putt by repairing spike damage, the fellow-competitor is penalized under Rule 1-2 . If the fellow-competitor's action is sanctioned, tacitly or otherwise, by the competitor, is the competitor also subject to penalty?

A. Yes, under Rule 13-2 , for allowing his line of play to be improved.

Related Decisions:

• 16-1a/16 Spike Mark on Line of Putt Repaired During Repair of Ball Mark.

• 16-1c/4 Repair of Spike Mark Damage Around Hole.

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Slice of Life Great Member

Slice of Life

Opponent or fellow competitor? Did you sinking the putt win the hole? Did your opponent object to the repairs?

If this was match play and you won the hole there is no penalty because play of the hole is over.

It this is stroke play you incur a penalty under 1-2 and if your opponent approves of the action (tacitly or otherwise) he is penalized under 13-2

This is the relevant decision:

13-2/36

Competitor Sanctions Repair of Spike Damage on His Line of Putt by Fellow-Competitor

Q.If a fellow-competitor purposely improves the competitor's line of putt by repairing spike damage, the fellow-competitor is penalized under Rule 1-2. If the fellow-competitor's action is sanctioned, tacitly or otherwise, by the competitor, is the competitor also subject to penalty?

A.Yes, under Rule 13-2, for allowing his line of play to be improved.

Related Decisions:

• 16-1a/16 Spike Mark on Line of Putt Repaired During Repair of Ball Mark.

• 16-1c/4 Repair of Spike Mark Damage Around Hole.

Some rules I'll never understand. Your putt has to suffer because the person on the green before you was an a-hole? Dumb.

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

Let's say opponent and i both on the green.  He 15 feet and me 11 ft from cup.  But in his line of putt are horrid, gouged out spike marks poking up 2 feet from cup.  They don't bother me, not in my line.

But i can see his agony and offer to putt first.  He says sure, go ahead.  So i putt right into the cup.  Then i take my putter and tamp down spike marks around the cup, including all those in his line.

I step away and he putts.  Have either of us suffered a penalty?

Yes, in stroke play you are penalized 2 strokes under Rule 1-2 and he is penalized 2 strokes under 13-2.  In match play you lose the hole for a breach of 1-2.  If the committee sees it as a serious breach, you could both be disqualified.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Asheville Great Member

Asheville

Quote:

Originally Posted by fr0sty

Opponent or fellow competitor? Did you sinking the putt win the hole? Did your opponent object to the repairs?

If this was match play and you won the hole there is no penalty because play of the hole is over.

It this is stroke play you incur a penalty under 1-2 and if your opponent approves of the action (tacitly or otherwise) he is penalized under 13-2

This is the relevant decision:

13-2/36

Competitor Sanctions Repair of Spike Damage on His Line of Putt by Fellow-Competitor

Q.If a fellow-competitor purposely improves the competitor's line of putt by repairing spike damage, the fellow-competitor is penalized under Rule 1-2. If the fellow-competitor's action is sanctioned, tacitly or otherwise, by the competitor, is the competitor also subject to penalty?

A.Yes, under Rule 13-2, for allowing his line of play to be improved.

Related Decisions:

• 16-1a/16 Spike Mark on Line of Putt Repaired During Repair of Ball Mark.

• 16-1c/4 Repair of Spike Mark Damage Around Hole.

Some rules I'll never understand. Your putt has to suffer because the person on the green before you was an a-hole? Dumb.

Read Tufts.

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David in FL Incredible Member

David in FL

I actually had to stop a FC from "helping" me out like that a couple of years ago in a tournament.  He looked at me like I was nuts......

Wait until everyone is done with the hole and then tamp to your hearts content on your way off the green.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw
Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Slice of Life Great Member

Slice of Life

Read Tufts.

Wat

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
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David in FL Incredible Member

David in FL

Read Tufts.

Yup....

Wat

The Principles Behind the Rules of Golf , by Richard Tufts.

Only about 75 pages and you can get it for about $3 from the USGA.  Gives a great insight as to why the rules are what they are, and really helps understand some that may (alright, do) appear silly at first.....

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw
Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Slice of Life Great Member

Slice of Life

Yup....

The Principles Behind the Rules of Golf, by Richard Tufts.

Only about 75 pages and you can get it for about $3 from the USGA.  Gives a great insight as to why the rules are what they are, and really helps understand some that may (alright, do) appear silly at first.....

75 pages is more than I'm willing to read...still haven't gotten through all of LSW yet lol.

Either way, I still follow the rule, and wouldn't try to change it...doesn't mean it isn't dumb. If anything, you should be penalized for not fixing your ball and spike marks. What's to stop someone from leaving spike marks around the hole to gain an advantage? (Is there a rule preventing that?)

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
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MS256 Great Member

MS256

75 pages is more than I'm willing to read...still haven't gotten through all of LSW yet lol.

Either way, I still follow the rule, and wouldn't try to change it...doesn't mean it isn't dumb. If anything, you should be penalized for not fixing your ball and spike marks. What's to stop someone from leaving spike marks around the hole to gain an advantage? (Is there a rule preventing that?)

Reminds me of the little spat Phil and Vijay got into a few years ago when Phil (who's fairly heavy footed anyway) was doing his little practice routine circle around the holes before putting.

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fr0sty Well Established Member

fr0sty

What's to stop someone from leaving spike marks around the hole to gain an advantage? (Is there a rule preventing that?)

An advantage against whom? If you tramp all over a players line they are entitled to have the line of putt restored to the condition it was in when their ball came to rest. If you are doing it to spite the group behind you your fellow competitors can fix them.

Either case could be considered a serious breach of etiquette and you would be penalized accordingly.

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Slice of Life Great Member

Slice of Life

An advantage against whom? If you tramp all over a players line they are entitled to have the line of putt restored to the condition it was in when their ball came to rest. If you are doing it to spite the group behind you your fellow competitors can fix them.

Either case could be considered a serious breach of etiquette and you would be penalized accordingly.

That was more of what my question was asking (the bold).

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
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edwjmcgrath Member

edwjmcgrath

75 pages is more than I'm willing to read...still haven't gotten through all of LSW yet lol.

Either way, I still follow the rule, and wouldn't try to change it...doesn't mean it isn't dumb. If anything, you should be penalized for not fixing your ball and spike marks. What's to stop someone from leaving spike marks around the hole to gain an advantage? (Is there a rule preventing that?)


Ok, I'll give you a quick summary.  The first rule of golf is "Play the course as you find it."

Spikemarks, divots, leaves, trees are all part of the natural environment of a golf course and everyone has the same chance of being helped or harmed by them.

Every square inch around every hole has spike marks on it.  If you allowed people to press down anything they thought was a spike mark, people would be pressing down a path from their ball to the hole on every putt.  If you think the spike damage exceeds the normal and really constitutes GUR then that's a different story.  In match play, you could ask your opponent and you both agree that it qualifies then you may repair it.  In stroke play, take a picture and play two balls (one with the repair made) and ask for a ruling.

And yes, there is a rule to stop someone from leaving spike marks around the hole to gain an advantage.  2PS/Loss of Hole or DQ for a serious violation.

1-2 . Exerting Influence On Movement Of Ball Or Altering Physical Conditions

A player must not... alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole.

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turtleback Super Member

turtleback

75 pages is more than I'm willing to read...still haven't gotten through all of LSW yet lol.

Either way, I still follow the rule, and wouldn't try to change it...doesn't mean it isn't dumb. If anything, you should be penalized for not fixing your ball and spike marks. What's to stop someone from leaving spike marks around the hole to gain an advantage? (Is there a rule preventing that?)

Rule 1-2 prohibits a golfer from altering physical conditions with the intent of affecting the play of the hole. Penalty 2 strokes or, in a case as you describe, likely DQ.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

75 pages is more than I'm willing to read...still haven't gotten through all of LSW yet lol.

Either way, I still follow the rule, and wouldn't try to change it...doesn't mean it isn't dumb. If anything, you should be penalized for not fixing your ball and spike marks. What's to stop someone from leaving spike marks around the hole to gain an advantage? (Is there a rule preventing that?)

Rule 1-2 prohibits a golfer from altering physical conditions with the intent of affecting the play of the hole. Penalty 2 strokes or, in a case as you describe, likely DQ.

And if they agree to allow such a breach, then they are in breach of 1-3 and both are disqualified for agreeing to waive a rule.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Aflighter Great Member

Aflighter

good luck trying to prove someone was purposely creating spike marks.some rules are stupid and need to be changed.a spike mark is not a natural part of the course the way the course was designed to play.Cant understand how you can remove a leaf or speck of dirt out of your line but yet something unnatural like a spike mark you cant tap down.When it comes to putting it should be only fair to be able to play the green as it was made and not altered by others.I imagine this rule may be changed down the road especially when it creates a controversy.

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Lihu Incredible Member

Lihu

75 pages is more than I'm willing to read...still haven't gotten through all of LSW yet lol.

Either way, I still follow the rule, and wouldn't try to change it...doesn't mean it isn't dumb. If anything, you should be penalized for not fixing your ball and spike marks. What's to stop someone from leaving spike marks around the hole to gain an advantage? (Is there a rule preventing that?)

That makes two of us. At least I know I'm not alone. I'm still getting more keys and going to fit the clubs properly.

Well, the hope is that we'll both be single digit golfers by the time we're done. :beer:

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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That makes two of us. At least I know I'm not alone. I'm still getting more keys and going to fit the clubs properly.

It's OT but just finish reading it @Lihu . Seriously.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Note: This thread is 3496 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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