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Hank Haney Made Some Controversial Comments on His Show

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On 5/30/2019 at 9:10 PM, DrMJG said:

it is no less compelling to watch

It's certainly less compelling to watch.  The standard of play is measurably not the best and is not as entertaining if you look at performance as the driving factor of entertainment.  Which most people do; that's why in part why people watch NBA v. WNBA, or other sports.  It's largely a function of performance, and here, it is measurably a lower standard.  While golf is more than just ball speed and distance, it is certainly one of the key components.  Indeed, Ariya Jutanugarn may achieve 155 mph of ball speed with her mammoth 3 wood, even she pales in comparison to the men, and she is the tip of the spear in terms of power.  Shoot, even the ladies LONG DRIVE players only have ball speeds around 165-175 mph and that competition is pure speed and distance, and they still fall around the middle to upper middle of the pack for the PGA tour.  My wife doesn't even want to watch LPGA, nor does my sister (who was a collegiate golfer).  They want to watch Tiger, Phil, Rory, Brooks, etc.  Why?  I think we know the answer.  It's the same reason why women watch other men's sports as opposed to comparable ladies sports.

While I am a fan of the LPGA and watch many tournaments when I have time, I completely understand why many do not.  I watch it in part because the top, longer ladies have the same ball speed as me, so it is interesting to see these ladies work their way around the course and play great golf, a perfect version of golf that I can try and strive for.  Granted, I don't spend the time nor resources on golf as they do, it is refreshing to watch someone strike a ball like me, unlike the otherworldy and unobtainable version of this game that the men play.  

Edited by ncates00

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Nonetheless, Hank should've said what @iacas said, or something along the lines of the typical refrain of: "it's a great course, the ladies are playing great, and I'm sure it'll be a great US Open."  He had an opportunity to lift up and he unfortunately chose to put down.

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20 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Nonetheless, Hank should've said what @iacas said, or something along the lines of the typical refrain of: "it's a great course, the ladies are playing great, and I'm sure it'll be a great US Open."  He had an opportunity to lift up and he unfortunately chose to put down.

Some guys only elevate themselves by putting others down.

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3 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Again, that's not their fault. It's yours.

 

That's not how this works. It is their fault. It is their job to sell me and the general population that they are worth watching. They are the product. I am the consumer. I along with virtually everyone else on the planet do not consume their product.

Back to the point, what Hank Haney said was neither racist nor sexist. He maybe should get in trouble for not promoting golf on PGA Tour but he shouldn't have his life ruined by the PC crowd for expressing a sentiment that probably 80% of golf fans share to some degree.

Edit: Upon further examination, 80% was a really good estimate. 

?m=02&d=20190115&t=2&i=1345987893&w=1200

The LPGA season kicks off on Thursday for a season that will comprise 34 events and distribute some $70 million in prize money, a record amount for the circuit although it is still barely one-fifth on...

 

Edited by TigerIsNumeroUNO

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9 minutes ago, TigerIsNumeroUNO said:

That's not how this works. It is their fault. It is their job to sell me and the general population that they are worth watching. They are the product. I am the consumer. I along with virtually everyone else on the planet do not consume their product.

Nice choice quoting. Great job to leave out the parts where I respond to you calling them high school level golf and such.

Their job is to play the best golf possible. Entertainment of biased morons is well down on the list.

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4 hours ago, iacas said:

He should be educated on matters of golf, and where he's not - nobody would fault him if he says "Hey, I have a hard enough time keeping up with the PGA Tour, I just don't have time to follow the women, but I'm sure they're great and I've heard they're playing an incredible course this weekend." 

Yep. Well said.

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

Nice choice quoting. Great job to leave out the parts where I respond to you calling them high school level golf and such.

Their job is to play the best golf possible. Entertainment of biased morons is well down on the list.

They're certainly not high school level of golf; that's a stupid remark by @TigerIsNumeroUNO; but you can't argue with a straight face that the level of play is anywhere near the quality of even the web.com tour, or maybe even men's D1 collegiate events.

However, in order to continue to play golf, you must have money and that comes from corporate sponsorships, advertising agreements, ticket sales, and many other things.  Those monies in part are derived from corporations' expectant mutual benefit by way of advertising and increased awareness and use of the corporation's services/product by fans.  So even your "biased morons" matter because the LPGA needs to attract a large enough fanbase to leverage more corporate sponsorships and hopefully increased purses for the ladies.  So like it or not, @TigerIsNumeroUNO has a point.  You can play all the "best golf possible" you want, but the money must be there.  And if I'm a corporate executive, I'm excited about a partnership with the LPGA, but I want to make sure I get something in return, besides the potentiality of some little write off, but the level of play would certainly give me pause when considering a sponsorship.  This ain't no charity after all.

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28 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

They're certainly not high school level of golf; that's a stupid remark by @TigerIsNumeroUNO; but you can't argue with a straight face that the level of play is anywhere near the quality of even the web.com tour, or maybe even men's D1 collegiate events.

They're the best female players in the world. For a guy who lists his index as "ummmmmm" they're probably a helluva lot better than you.

They're less robotic on the golf course, too. They show emotion. They're playing a phenomenal golf course this weekend. I'm absolutely watching more of this than The Memorial.

28 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

However, in order to continue to play golf, you must have money and that comes from corporate sponsorships, advertising agreements, ticket sales, and many other things.

No shit, but what's that got to do with Hank Haney?

28 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

So even your "biased morons" matter because the LPGA needs to attract a large enough fanbase to leverage more corporate sponsorships and hopefully increased purses for the ladies.

You act like they're not. They've grown - tremendously - under Mike Whan.

Just because you and @GoofballNumeroUNO are missing out doesn't change the fact that the top female players in the world are playing an incredible golf course at a high level for a U.S. Open and Hank Haney made short-sighted, ignorant, controversial comments. He had a chance to lift golf up or at least keep it at the level it was at, and he lowered the level instead.

28 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

You can play all the "best golf possible" you want, but the money must be there.

The money is there, so you're not making sense.

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Just now, iacas said:

They're the best female players in the world. For a guy who lists his index as "ummmmmm" they're probably a helluva lot better than you.

Never argued to the contrary.  The top ladies only have the same ballspeed as me, a much lessor player.

 

1 minute ago, iacas said:

They're less robotic on the golf course, too. They show emotion. They're playing a phenomenal golf course this weekend. I'm absolutely watching more of this than The Memorial.

Who cares?  That's subjective and your opinion.  I want better play, as do most people.  Watch sports much?  People watch sports because it's a tremendous display of athletic prowess.  The LPGA doesn't have the best showing of this and it is measuable.  Your "emotion" and lack of roboticism is a dumb argument here.

 

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

You act like they're not. They've grown - tremendously - under Mike Whan.

Just because you and @GoofballNumeroUNO are missing out doesn't change the fact that the top female players in the world are playing an incredible golf course at a high level for a U.S. Open and Hank Haney made short-sighted, ignorant, controversial comments. He had a chance to lift golf up or at least keep it at the level it was at, and he lowered the level instead.

And I've said as much.  It has gotten better, but it's definitely not the best or even close to the best product out there.

 

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

The money is there, so you're not making sense.

Yeah, enough to keep the tour somewhat going at fewer events and less payouts than the men.  If that's what you want then sure.  Checked the money list lately?  You think the women think the money is there?  If so, we wouldn't have this talk about "equality" of pay.  I suppose you're right then; the pay is there per the level of play/entertainment displayed.  

Further, you seemed to have conveniently skipped over the fact that I have said I am a fan of the LPGA.  I watch it quite a bit, so it's a bit presumptuous of you to say I'm "missing out."

3 hours ago, ncates00 said:

While I am a fan of the LPGA and watch many tournaments when I have time, I completely understand why many do not.  I watch it in part because the top, longer ladies have the same ball speed as me, so it is interesting to see these ladies work their way around the course and play great golf, a perfect version of golf that I can try and strive for.  Granted, I don't spend the time nor resources on golf as they do, it is refreshing to watch someone strike a ball like me, unlike the otherworldy and unobtainable version of this game that the men play.  

@iacas

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

He had a chance to lift golf up or at least keep it at the level it was at, and he lowered the level instead.

and didn't I say this very thing?

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2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Never argued to the contrary.  The top ladies only have the same ballspeed as me, a much lessor player.

There's a helluva lot more to golf than ball speed.

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Who cares?  That's subjective and your opinion.

Mostly untrue. They're less robotic (some of the Korean girls aren't). They show more emotion. Both closer to facts than "subjective." The phenomenal golf course is also a pretty widely held opinion.

And… here's the thing: none of this is the actual topic. The topic is Hank Haney's comments. It's not whether you enjoy watching the women play golf.

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Watch sports much?  People watch sports because it's a tremendous display of athletic prowess.

And the women are doing just that. It's not at the level of the PGA Tour, but people also watch golf for the personalities. Do you think when fans were all watching John Daly they were doing it because of his athletic prowess? Or do you think, many times, they were waiting to see what dumb shit he'd do next?

The women display incredible athletic prowess.

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

The LPGA doesn't have the best showing of this and it is measuable.  Your "emotion" and lack of roboticism is a dumb argument here.

Bullshit. People watch sports for the storylines. To be entertained. To see the golf course they're playing.

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

And I've said as much.  It has gotten better, but it's definitely not the best or even close to the best product out there.

That's your opinion. For me, it's a better product this weekend. They're playing a major on a better golf course. And I rate Muirfield Village quite highly.

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Yeah, enough to keep the tour somewhat going at fewer events and less payouts than the men.

If that's all that matters to you, why do you watch golf at all? The revenue it generates and the viewership it gathers pales in comparison to the NFL, or the NBA, or soccer worldwide, or cricket worldwide. So go watch those sports.

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

You think the women think the money is there?

Who the f*** made that argument and what - again - does that have to do with Hank Haney making an ignorant, biased, offensive remark?


Here's the deal: this topic is about Haney's ignorant comments. It's not about the popularity of the women's Tour - everyone knows it's less popular than the men's tour overall. Stick to the topic.

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I don't know ball speed from shinola, but I'm a pretty good player, 4 hdcp., play a course at about 6700 yds., which is as long or a bit longer than the ladies play, but I just saw J M Green hit it pin high from 266 on a par 5. I can't do that on my best day, unless I hit a couple sprinkler heads. These women can really hit it, and I'm enjoying the heck out of watching them play this great golf course. This is way more entertaining than watching the the Memorial. Thanks to Rolex for the continuous broadcast. If I could afford it, I'd get one.  Sorry to be off topic, but I hope Hank is watching.

Edited by Sandy Divot
adding content

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8 minutes ago, Sandy Divot said:

I don't know ball speed from shinola, but I'm a pretty good player, 4 hdcp., play a course at about 6700 yds., which is as long or a bit longer than the ladies play, but I just saw J M Green hit it pin high from 266 on a par 5. I can't do that on my best day, unless I hit a couple sprinkler heads. These women can really hit it, and I'm enjoying the heck out of watching them play this great golf course. This is way more entertaining than watching the the Memorial. Thanks to Rolex for the continuous broadcast. If I could afford it, I'd get one.

Hopefully this won't get deleted.  I agree.  That's why I watch.  They inspire me as I've said before.  I play similar to longer courses as they do and try to emulate them but fail.  I shoot in the 70s and have never broken par.  They're much better than me.  Hopefully I can squeeze in some golf this summer and try to play like them.

Hank shouldn't have said what he did, although I didn't find the comments sexist or racist.  Insensitive, sure.  Demeaning, absolutely.  This is good play we're watching, but it's definitely not the best play this weekend, and yet, it's what I'm watching.  I watch the ladies quite a bit when Tiger isn't playing.

Edited by ncates00

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13 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Hopefully this won't get deleted.

We don't delete posts that are ON topic.

13 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Hank shouldn't have said what he did, although I didn't find the comments sexist or racist. Insensitive, sure. Demeaning, absolutely.

And that right there is the topic. So, you largely agree with the Hank comments I've made. Cool.

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

We don't delete posts that are ON topic.

And that right there is the topic. So, you largely agree with the Hank comments I've made. Cool.

Yes, which is what I said when I @'d you posts ago.

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17 minutes ago, TigerIsNumeroUNO said:
1 Thailand Ariya Jutanugarn 28 2,743,949
2 Australia Minjee Lee 27 1,551,032
3 South Korea Park Sung-hyun 24 1,498,077
4 Canada Brooke Henderson 28 1,473,247
5 Japan Nasa Hataoka 24 1,454,261
6 South Korea Ryu So-yeon 23 1,438,850
7 South Korea Kim Sei-young 27 1,369,418
8 Spain Carlota Ciganda 25 1,244,610
9 United States Lexi Thompson 20 1,223,748
10 South Korea Ko Jin-young 25 1,159,005

 

Here are the top ten on last years money list. If you went into most grill rooms in this country and asked people to say who was in the top 10 in money last year, the majority would get one or fewer of the top 10 on the money list. And those are the people sitting around watching golf. 

I watch every NBA playoff game. I watch a fair amount of golf.  I watch a fair amount of SportsCenter. I am a news junkie. Not only do I not know who Ariya Jutanguam is,  I have never heard her  name in my life.

The number 100 person on the money list made about what a low level engineer makes.  It is amusing being called a moron and ignorant when reality agrees with me. I'm sorry almost no one knows who these people are. Hank Haney expressed a common sentiment (one that my dad expressed to me in a similar way a few weeks back).   Just look at the earnings of womens golf vs womens tennis. And then look at men's golf vs men's tennis.  The LPGA should be in crisis mode to fix their unpopularity.

 

This is on you, not them. I could not name more than a dozen NBA players and I used to be into the sport,  it it is really boring now to me. But I sure as hell know every golfer on this list because I watch golf and this is a GOLF forum. AJ is a tremendously powerful player and she has this habit of smiling on purpose before every shot to relax. Instead of crapping on them, you should actually try watching once to so you could actually know what you are talking about.

Back on topic, HH was a dope for what he said and deserves the suspension.

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5 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Back on topic, HH was a dope for what he said and deserves the suspension.

I agree, but I'm on the fence with the suspension part.  But I get it; the network has to take a stance so as not to get blasted in today's world.

6 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I could not name more than a dozen NBA players and I used to be into the sport,  it it is really boring now to me. But I sure as hell know every golfer on this list because I watch golf and this is a GOLF forum. AJ is a tremendously powerful player and she has this habit of smiling on purpose before every shot to relax. Instead of crapping on them, you should actually try watching once to so you could actually know what you are talking about.

100% i'm the same and I agree.

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2 minutes ago, Aflighter said:

From the looks up it,it appears hank was speaking the truth.A Korean winning and has a 6 on her last name to tell em apart.

This whole thing is beyond pc gone crazy. After the suspension news I had to go back and read the transcript again incase I missed something.

Nope still absolutely and utterly ridicilous.

I hope one of the Lees takes it.

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image.png'

Top ten (11 counting the tie for 10th) as of 5:35 or so.

  • 2 Korean women.
  • 1 Chinese woman.
  • 1 Japanese woman.
  • 1 French woman.
  • 6 Americans.

A Korean woman is currently leading by several, but it doesn't make Hank's comments accurate or any better. If it was common for American girls to have the last name "Smith" then three or four of those six American women might have that last name.

Regardless of the final leaderboard, Hank's comments were insensitive and inappropriate. He had a chance to lift golf up or at the very least remain neutral, and instead he drug it downward.

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