Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 2355 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

Okay so today I played 18 at Greenfield Park in Milwaukee Wisconsin.  It appeared that whoever set the cups in place did so in such a manner that the cup were not vertical.  In other words so that the flag stick had a forced lean by it's own weight. This was on all 18 holes, was random in direction but it seemed as if it was done on purpose. This was not the wind blowing the flag stick.  They were not placed vertical.  I had one putt that I made on a longish lag putt were the ball dropped below the lip but became pinched by the flag stick preventing it from resting on the bottom. The whole thing seemed rather odd. Has anyone else seen this type of set up?

Driver G with Tour 65 shaft 10.5 neutral setting by :ping:
3W G30, #3 and #4 Hybrid, Irons 5 to GW G25 by :ping:
54 & 58 Glide Wedges and putter Cadence TR Anser 2  Traditional also by :ping:
Ball TriSpeed Tour by :srixon: Shoes M Project Wide by :footjoy:
Bag and Push cart by :sunmountain:


Posted
40 minutes ago, WildTurkey said:

I had one putt that I made on a longish lag putt were the ball dropped below the lip but became pinched by the flag stick preventing it from resting on the bottom. 

The ball is still holed. 

No, I haven’t seen a setup like that.

  • Informative 1

Craig
What's in the :ogio: Silencer bag (on the :clicgear: cart)
Driver: :callaway: Razr Fit 10.5°  
5 Wood: :tmade: Burner  
Hybrid: :cobra: Baffler DWS 20°
Irons: :ping: G400 
Wedge: :ping: Glide 2.0 54° ES grind 
Putter: :heavyputter:  midweight CX2
:aimpoint:,  :bushnell: Tour V4

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
19 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

The ball is still holed. 

Correct;  for OP's reference purposes, see rule 13.2c:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rule-13.html#Rule 13.2c

If it's nested against the flagstick and any part of the ball is beneath the surface, congratulations, you holed out. 

  • Like 1

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted

Plus maybe the cups were straight but the holes were worn so the stick could wobble.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

It’s also possible that the guy cutting the pins needs a bit of guidance/training...

  • Like 1

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I have seen this befor, but it was mostly due to the bottom of the pin, and the reciever in the cup being worn out. The two no longer fit tightly together. 

Other times there was debris (dirt/grass/trash) in the bottonm of the cup, that did not allow for a proper fit between the cup, and the pin. 

Very seldom have I seen a cup cut at a bad angle. I am sure it happens though. 

All in all, other than checking for a break point, or fall line, I never really worried much about a crooked flag stick. The hole was what it was. 

In My Bag:
A whole bunch of Tour Edge golf stuff...... :beer:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)

Most of the time the cups of one or more holes at my local club are placed tilted. On top of that the part of the cup holding the flag is worn out. So the flag is most of the time slightly tilted instead of placed vertical. Depending on the angle you are putting from, in my opinion this might make the hole smaller. When the flag is not placed vertically it also might give you a wrong read on the slope. For that reason, I always ask to tend the flag or have it removed. So not taking benefit of rule 13.2a(2) here

The guys cutting the hole don't do a particular good job on filling the old hole eiter:IMG_20190407_112836315.thumb.jpg.8157e562f2fb730b07cd75c99b2738ef.jpg

IMG_20180605_114630570.thumb.jpg.a578d63a5629fe8f1196f8d85bead222.jpg

 

I allready talked to the manager about it and he'll look in to it...
It's a 9 hole 3500 yard municipal course, but is only 15 minutes away, so I guess I just have to live with it.

Happy golfing!

 

 

 

Edited by kodewolf

What's in the bag:

:ping: G20 Driver (10,5, TFC 169D R-flex)
:tmade: Burner 5w
:ping: G20 4i-PW (yellow dot, CFS R-flex)
:cleveland: RTX 588 50°,56° and 60° wedges
:ping: Karsten Anser 2 putter
:srixon: AD333 ball

  • PING CFS

Posted

At a lower end municipal course, you likely have your basic municipal landscape workers caring for the course.  Even the manager may not be well trained in golf course operations management.  

Sadly, sometimes you really do get what you pay for...

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 2355 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.