The Idea of Hammering Nails

[Bonvivant]

If this needs moved, please do so. On to the good stuff.

Who here has used the idea of imagining a nail going through the ball on the plane that they wished to contact the ball? What were your results? One of my favorite podcasts that I listen to is Chasing Scratch (this is the only golf podcast I follow right now), and they had some Skype instruction from a guy named Adam Young, and one of his biggest ideas is impact manipulation. Learning how to hit out of the toe/heel (dispersion training) is part of it, as well as the idea of hammering the nail. He teaches that the impact point and everything that goes into it (AOA, face direction, club direction, speed, etc.) is the most important thing for improvement, which makes loads of sense. He is also of the mind that if you focus on getting proper impact, that your swing mechanics will improve. I believe that he said with his lessons he does in person, only 10% of what he teaches is pure mechanics

I learned to hit driver within the last month using the "hammer the nail" idea, and it did me wonders. It still isn't perfect, but I am typically getting 240-260 total distance with a relatively controllable shot shape. My last round had 14 drives with only 1 that was OB/Hazard (snap hook) and all of the rest were in the clear (no tree obstructions or anything). I just wanted to get opinions or experiences from others on this topic. I know that my swing still needs plenty of work, but to go from only being able to shank/top a driver to hitting it well and decently long in this month passed makes me a believer in this idea.

[Piz]

Any image that works is worth holding on to.  I was a carpenter, and a very good one, but the image of driving a nail never made any sense to me.  That is due to my experience.  For someone who has not (I assume) spent 40 years driving nails...it may be helpful.  For guys who make a living swinging a hammer it isn't a thing.  Were it so...the best ball strikers would not be framing houses.

[Bonvivant]

9 minutes ago, Piz said:

Any image that works is worth holding on to.  I was a carpenter, and a very good one, but the image of driving a nail never made any sense to me.  That is due to my experience.  For someone who has not (I assume) spent 40 years driving nails...it may be helpful.  For guys who make a living swinging a hammer it isn't a thing.  Were it so...the best ball strikers would not be framing houses.

I love this response. My dad was a carpenter, and was also the one who got me into golf at a very young age. He had me swinging cut down clubs at 3 years old and I played with him plenty during most summers up until age 15 or so. He also taught me a bit about carpentry but that knowledge is long gone as my interests were elsewhere.

I suppose for the last sentence all I can say is that doing it with a golf club could be quite different that with a hammer, and obviously is. The visualization for me helped in turning my 50-60 yard slice with a driver (why I didn't play one at first when I got back into it this year), and also the AOA with driver. I always picture my nail starting below center in the back, the head of the nail that is, and exiting the ball just above center in the front, which gets me to come up on the ball very well. I find that most of the people I play with are either coming down on the drive or are flat. Of course this is from a novices POV. Lots of the strangers I have played with comment on how my ball flight is so high with driver, which I feel is a combination of 3 things: negative AOA, the fact that my driver is 12.5 degree, and a spin rate that is probably too high (this I am trying to fix, but also has a good deal to do with the loft of my driver I think). I need to get on to a monitor to verify, but I don't think that my swing speed is even close to 100mph.

[Piz]

Thanks @Bonvivant.  I thought of a word today...qwertylogical.  It means that the keys, in our heads, are there for a reason.  Namely...it is to keep them from interfering with one another.  We cannot be exactly the same despite our common language.  That should not prevent us from communicating...but it does explain why we explain things differently.  

Far as driving a nail...I still have an image (from Bobby Jones via Walter Travis) of driving a tiny tack, flush, when putting.  

[iacas]

Meh.

It's a mental image that, like everything that's a "feel" or an image or whatever, will work for some people and generally only for some of the time.

 

[Bonvivant]

Just now, iacas said:

Meh.

It's a mental image that, like everything that's a "feel" or an image or whatever, will work for some people and generally only for some of the time.

 

Fair enough. I was more wondering if others have had the same result as I have with taking a more impact driven feel, as opposed to one related to a certain body position. I am still so new to the idea of taking golf seriously and have so much to learn. Thanks

[ShawnSum]

Love that podcast as well and that episode where Adam talks about how he spent years recording his swing and obsessing over his flaws to the point of being in tears because he could not get into some certain positions he was trying to get into....that was a pretty powerful message.

I'm working on some stuff with my instructor and I haven't bought any of Adam's stuff yet because I don't want to double dip with too much stuff to work on but I am going to check out his strike plan and book eventually. I REALLY like his philosophy on certain things.

[Patch]

I remember that teaching image from a few decades ago. 

My instructor back then touched on it, but his whole method of swing instruction revolved around a solid impact position, while manipulating the club face/head from set up o impact, to send the ball on the golfer's intended target line.  

 

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

Fair enough. I was more wondering if others have had the same result as I have with taking a more impact driven feel, as opposed to one related to a certain body position. I am still so new to the idea of taking golf seriously and have so much to learn. Thanks

It never worked for me as I’ve never swung a 45” hammer.

[Zippo]

6 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It never worked for me as I’ve never swung a 45” hammer.

That's kind of what I thought, too. Also, when I did swing a hammer, there was a reason my nickname was "lightning"...

[Piz]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

It never worked for me as I’ve never swung a 45” hammer.

If you have ever split wood, or swung a sledgehammer, you have experienced the forces involved.  They do not translate, directly, because the end result is decidedly different.  We do not attack the object, in golf, so much as propel it on its way.  If you did have a 45 inch hammer you would not swing it like a 16 inch framer.  The longer the swing is the longer it takes to unfold.

[GolfLug]

On 10/2/2019 at 11:15 PM, Bonvivant said:

If this needs moved, please do so. On to the good stuff.

Who here has used the idea of imagining a nail going through the ball on the plane that they wished to contact the ball? What were your results? 

I have a five-six years ago when I was always game for trying anything that made immediate sense. 

Anecdotally it is not a bad image for folks who have a tendency to scoop/flip at impact. But IMO it's hardly comes close to curing many fundamentally bad tendencies lot of us have. Come to find out it didn't cure any of my backswing bad habits like a flat swaying at take away. I had to and am still am working to be mindful of Keys 1 and 2 independent of all other aspects. 

On 10/2/2019 at 11:15 PM, Bonvivant said:

He teaches that the impact point and everything that goes into it (AOA, face direction, club direction, speed, etc.) is the most important thing for improvement, which makes loads of sense. He is also of the mind that if you focus on getting proper impact, that your swing mechanics will improve. I believe that he said with his lessons he does in person, only 10% of what he teaches is pure mechanics.

Hammering a nail is a 'mechanical image'. AOA, face direction, club direction, speed,etc are all mechanical aspects of a swing. Not knocking anything here, just that he is over the 10% pure mechanics quota right outta gates, no? 

Bottom line is, the image is fine, but I would caution anyone who would somehow think rest of the steps from address onwards automatically map themselves - especially the backswing pieces. Oh how I wish though..  

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Bottom line is, the image is fine, but I would caution anyone who would somehow think rest of the steps from address onwards automatically map themselves - especially the backswing pieces. Oh how I wish though..  

Yup.

At the end of the day…

Those two things are true.

What also seems to be true? Those who don't understand the mechanics of the golf swing often try to shy away from it. And their players will often achieve some short-term success that's better than a player working toward improvement the more traditional way, but these mental imagery types of things and the "swing your own swing" types of things often install a lower ceiling than the golfer might otherwise be capable of playing to. They're almost band-aid type fixes.

[Bonvivant]

Thanks again. I am not opposed to what I would call "mechanical" (I think of these as body specific) fixes or anything, but I have a hard time with specific body position thoughts when I am playing a round, so I go to this. When I am at the range it is more specific things. Good input though and I will take it to heart

[iacas]

On 10/4/2019 at 2:03 PM, Bonvivant said:

Thanks again. I am not opposed to what I would call "mechanical" (I think of these as body specific) fixes or anything, but I have a hard time with specific body position thoughts when I am playing a round, so I go to this. When I am at the range it is more specific things. Good input though and I will take it to heart

Nobody should focus on "positions." That's not what a swing thought or a swing feel is. It's something dynamic.

[Bonvivant]

Just now, iacas said:

Nobody should focus on "positions." That's not what a swing thought or a swing feel is. It's something dynamic.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarification