Phil Mickelson Skipping Phoenix to Play in Saudi Arabia

[iacas]

I can understand that different people will put the line in different places, but this is well across the line for me. Phil doesn't need the money, and neither do many of the other committed players. Tiger reportedly declined a $3.3M appearance fee to play in this event. It's blood money, someone said, and I concur.

Alan Shipnuck is the man to follow today re: this bit with Phil.

[Mr22putt]

Show me the MONEY!

FIGJAM rules Baby!

[ncates00]

I have no problem with Phil or anyone going to work and getting paid. Unless he has said otherwise, Phil’s playing does not constitute an endorsement of those who sign the check. Phil is right to not worry about what naysayers can argue or claim to know about his financial situation. 

[Double Mocha Man]

I think Phil is just greedy.  Phoenix loves him, he grew up there and the fans love him.  With his bank account I'd do Phoenix for nothing.  

He bets alot.  Maybe he just lost a BIG bet.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Double Mocha Man

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

I have no problem with Phil or anyone going to work and getting paid. Unless he has said otherwise, Phil’s playing does not constitute an endorsement of those who sign the check. Phil is right to not worry about what naysayers can argue or claim to know about his financial situation. 

That's tone deaf, IMO. It may not be a ringing endorsement, but it's an endorsement all the same. Like I said, for me, this is well across the line, and he's full of shit when he says he thought the course looked interesting.

[ncates00]

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

It may not be a ringing endorsement, but it's an endorsement all the same.

Maybe to you, but I'm not going to make that assumption because I don't know him personally or have any other information that indicates he supports the regime.  My guess is, he wants to get paid and doesn't care where it comes from.  I'm fine with that.  

To say that Phil supports the regime I think is across the line on your part.  He has given no statements (that I'm aware of) to express his support.  He's playing in a golf tournament and getting paid to do it.  Connecting those dots, without more substance, is too far in my opinion.  

 

23 minutes ago, iacas said:

he's full of shit when he says he thought the course looked interesting.

Maybe he really thinks that.  (and wants to get paid 🙂 )

[iacas]

34 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Maybe to you, but I'm not going to make that assumption because I don't know him personally

It has nothing to do with him "personally." He's endorsing the sponsors of the event by taking their money and agreeing to play in it, ending a 27-consecutive-years event at one of his "home" events - and at a tournament he's won multiple times.

No, literally he's not saying "I think killing Americans and journalists in embassies, and committing all the other acts of terror and atrocities, I just think they're swell." But again, you'd have to be 100% tone deaf to think that playing says nothing about this.

34 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

My guess is, he wants to get paid and doesn't care where it comes from.  I'm fine with that.

Pretty sure you'll find yourself in a small minority there. Which I'm sure you'll say is fine, but hey, maybe you don't really care about all the bad shit they've done, either.

34 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

To say that Phil supports the regime I think is across the line on your part.

Not remotely. I'm not a fan of "but these people think so…" but since we're talking about a matter of opinion, since again it isn't literal as stated above, opinions are the only thing that really matter. If the vast majority of people take this act as a slight endorsement, then that's what matters.

And, again literally, he IS supporting the regime. They're the hosts and organizers of the event. They're putting on the tournament as a (false) show of how "western" they can be. Of how "great" it is to be in Saudi Arabia. It's a PR stunt, and Phil's allowing himself to be used. That's an endorsement.

34 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

He has given no statements (that I'm aware of) to express his support.

"I'm playing in the event put on by these people" is the endorsement.

[ncates00]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

It has nothing to do with him "personally." He's endorsing the sponsors of the event by taking their money and agreeing to play in it, ending a 27-consecutive-years event at one of his "home" events - and at a tournament he's won multiple times.

No, literally he's not saying "I think killing Americans and journalists in embassies, and committing all the other acts of terror and atrocities, I just think they're swell." But again, you'd have to be 100% tone deaf to think that playing says nothing about this.

Pretty sure you'll find yourself in a small minority there. Which I'm sure you'll say is fine, but hey, maybe you don't really care about all the bad shit they've done, either.

Not remotely. I'm not a fan of "but these people think so…" but since we're talking about a matter of opinion, since again it isn't literal as stated above, opinions are the only thing that really matter. If the vast majority of people take this act as a slight endorsement, then that's what matters.

And, again literally, he IS supporting the regime. They're the hosts and organizers of the event. They're putting on the tournament as a (false) show of how "western" they can be. Of how "great" it is to be in Saudi Arabia. It's a PR stunt, and Phil's allowing himself to be used. That's an endorsement.

"I'm playing in the event put on by these people" is the endorsement.

You make some fair points, but I don't view an endorsement like that at all.  An actual endorsement is not what you're trying to define it as.  What Phil is doing is not a literal endorsement because he has not given any express approval outside of taking money from them (not the other way around--that would be a financial endorsement) to play golf.  You're not seeing him endorse the regime like he does with Callaway or other sponsors (where he also takes money, but also endorses their products).  Unless you can point to a statement from Phil where he demonstrates his support of the regime, you have no endorsement here--his playing golf is not an endorsement.  

Edited December 2, 2019 by ncates00

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

An actual endorsement is not what you're trying to define it as.

I'm not re-defining anything here.

3 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

What Phil is doing is not a literal endorsement

I said that already. The world exists beyond the literal. "Phil is an asshole" isn't literal, but people know what you're saying.

3 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Unless you can point to a statement from Phil where he demonstrates his support of the regime

"I'm playing in their event." Boom. Done.

[Double Mocha Man]

Maybe Phil doesn't see his actions as an endorsement, but you can bet the Saudis do!  At least the Saudis in power.  Maybe not the general citizenry.   Believe this, they are thinking/saying that a celebrity and wealthy sports figure from the USA does not disagree with them... he has not raised his voice to do so.  Maybe Phil's apolitical... but I doubt it.  Phil's been bought.

One could spout the old cliche:  "Actions speak louder than words."

Edited December 2, 2019 by Double Mocha Man

[boogielicious]

So will Phil play the Pyongyang Open next year? Seems like a money grab on his part. Sad for Phoenix.

[mchepp]

I think this is PR fail for Phil. For the record I like Phil, but this was a mistake. Endorsement or not, he should apologize and skip it.

[ncates00]

So is the entire field "endorsing" the regime over there simply by going to play golf and receiving a check, or is it just Phil?  I get the attractiveness of some perceived moral high ground, but can't a person do something for themselves and their families?  Maybe they don't want to take some political stand and just want to play golf and provide for their families.  People look down their righteous noses at players for not being as holy as they are and not using the golfer's position to voice an opinion that they agree with.  Not everyone is into that.  Some want to be left alone and delegate that authority to their elected representatives and get on with their lives.  It's too easy to be the moral referee when you're judging others and think you know all the facts when you don't.  

If you're going to judge these players for playing golf, make sure you're up to date on all the goings on of corporations and make sure you "vote with your dollar" correctly every single time!  You don't want to be a hypocrite!

7 minutes ago, mchepp said:

I think this is PR fail for Phil. For the record I like Phil, but this was a mistake. Endorsement or not, he should apologize and skip it.

What about the other players? 

[mchepp]

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

So is the entire field "endorsing" the regime over there simply by going to play golf and receiving a check, or is it just Phil?  I get the attractiveness of some perceived moral high ground, but can't a person do something for themselves and their families?  Maybe they don't want to take some political stand and just want to play golf and provide for their families.  People look down their righteous noses at players for not being as holy as they are and not using the golfer's position to voice an opinion that they agree with.  Not everyone is into that.  Some want to be left alone and delegate that authority to their elected representatives and get on with their lives.  It's too easy to be the moral referee when you're judging others and think you know all the facts when you don't.  

If you're going to judge these players for playing golf, make sure you're up to date on all the goings on of corporations and make sure you "vote with your dollar" correctly every single time!  You don't want to be a hypocrite!

What about the other players? 

I think this decision is a net loss for Phil. Sure, he may get a check for some millions of dollars (for his family as you say) but Phil's best asset at the moment is his brand. I think this is a negative brand decision and will end up costing him more than that big check.  So I have no "holy" view as you say, I am looking at it from a business decision, and I think this hurts more than it helps. It is a PR fail, plain and simple.

There has a been a backlash for the companies who took money from the Vision Fund. I think it has hurt their brands.

I also think all of the players doing this are making a mistake. However, I don't think any of them have as big of a brand as Phil does. Phil has the most brand value to lose with this decision.

[ncates00]

7 minutes ago, mchepp said:

from a business decision

This is a good point.  You might be right, but it's hard to say.  

[Double Mocha Man]

I'm skipping the Masters this year to play in a local scramble.  It's a charity event to get food donations for Phil's family.

[iacas]

57 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

So is the entire field "endorsing" the regime

To varying degrees, yes. More so for Phil because it’s not his Tour, he’s skipping an event he plays normally, he’s getting an appearance fee, and he doesn’t need the money.

 One can understand the guy at the bottom of the Euro Tour money money list playing more so than Phil.

And you’re one to lecture on moral high ground. Your whole post is posturing for yourself.

[pganapathy]

Sadly, this borders on the political, but I don't know any government in the world that doesn't do very bad shit.  Playing anywhere in the world is endorsing them by that line of thought.  As far as O am concerned, Phil isn't doing anything wrong.

And don't ask me to name the stuff that has been done by multiple governments in the name of democracy and freedom.

If the PGA/Euro Tour is unwilling to have people criticised for this, don't send tournaments to places that might sound tone-deaf.