Getting to Scratch in 18 Months?

[David in FL]

19 hours ago, Bargolfer said:

As a scratch golfer I can tell you it is difficult and time consuming, but not improbable to go from a beginner to a scratch golfer in under 2 years. My advice is focus from the green and work backwards. First, putt, putt, putt!  Emphasis on lag putting which will lead to fewer 3 putts. Next, short game around the greens (important because you will be missing a lot of them). You see the pattern. Good luck!

You can have the best short game in the world, but without a very good full swing, you’ll struggle to get to single digits, let alone even approach scratch.

Welcome to the site!   

[billchao]

On 12/30/2019 at 4:34 PM, criley4way said:

Have you seen the Dan project?

This is possible but VERY difficult.

Did he ever make it to scratch? I thought towards the end he was low single digits but vanity capping. 

[Carl3]

Besides the couple of times I got to play with a pro (Gary Hallberg 18 holes, and Miguel Jimenez 1 hole), the best golfer I played with was a co-worker. I would say this guy was 30 years old at the and maybe 5'-10" and 150 pounds. This was the company golf outing in scramble format. I was probably a 10 to 12 HC at the time. This was before I got serious about the game. I had heard that this guy was good so my league partners we quick to sign him up to our foursome.

I had heard that he QB'd his high school football team and took them to the state title. I think he might have also been a BB and baseball star there as well. This was a small country school, but he came with a reputation. A lot of this I found out later after the round.

On the driving range he displayed a smooth swing and was cracking them out there real good. I assumed that he had played on the golf team in HS and had taken lessons, etc. He said he did not play in HS. This guy was now married and had small children. There was no way he was out playing all of the time and honing his game.

On the first tee he smacks one out a lot farther than I had ever been on this short par 5. We use his drive of course. I think we were line 180 and I have my 4i out. He takes a 7i and puts it on the small green.

The only other hole I remember clearly was hole 5, which is another par 5 that has a big pond in front of the green and is definitely a lay up situation for mortals. He hits a beautiful, effortless drive which has to be over 300 yards because we had about 200 yards to the pin. Now this is a public course that probably doesn't see as much water as some in late summer, so I am sure he got some roll out.

The green has a huge slope downward from a high at the back to a low at the front, which is protected by water. There are also trees blocking the right side of the green, which if you clipped a branch you would end up in the water. If you are long you would have an impossible chip that would roll through to the front and into the water.

This guy pulls out a 6i and puts it to with 5 or 6 feet and then putts it in. The putt must have broke a foot. This guy eagles the hardest hole on the course himself. For me at the time bogey is miraculous. Today I would be satisfied with a bogey and ecstatic  with a par on that hole as a 5.6 index.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but this was an eye opener for me as this was a guy that golfed less than most of us and could outplay most of us. It wasn't about technique, practice, equipment, etc. It was all about god-given athletic talent and ability. I am sure there is something about mental composure and being a competitor as he took a team to a state title. But I knew then and there that I probably would never be able to play as well as him no matter what I did or how hard I worked. He was a natural.

So to reinforce my point above, if you are a great athlete then scratch (or better) in 18 months (or less) is definitely possible.

[David in FL]

5 hours ago, billchao said:

Did he ever make it to scratch? I thought towards the end he was low single digits but vanity capping. 

I don’t think he ever got below a very questionable 5 or 6...

[leftybutnotPM]

On 12/28/2019 at 6:52 PM, golflover123 said:

Hi everyone 

Start golf a little bit ago i have a lot of time to play golf how much would i have to practice short game,iron,driver etc.

i know Greg Norman did it in the time is it possible 

 

It is possible if you have the talent of Greg Norman.

It would be one of the greatest sporting achievements in the history if you did.

My guess is that you have never played with a scratch marker or seen a professional hit the ball in real life.

And....if you are honest about it you'll find that getting from 18 to 4 is easier than getting from 4 to scratch.

In other words............ no.

Edited January 1, 2020 by leftybutnotPM

[leftybutnotPM]

On 12/31/2019 at 6:14 AM, Bonvivant said:

, there is no reason that you can't get low in that time frame. On top of that, it sounds like you are young so that helps as well

No reason? - what about the reason that it is the dream of every person who has even played the game, but may have been achieved a few times. Maybe once in every several million attempts.

Bottom line is that if it were possible for this player, he wouldn't be asking people who've never seen him play. He would already be shooting in the mid seventies consistently.

Unfortunately, a realistic but unachievable goal for most would be a genuine handicap of 10 in 18 months. Even that would be truly remarkable. It would usually involve plenty of practice and good instruction.

Usually, in this type of thread the person submits about 5 cards in certain conditions that amount to a handicap that is ridiculously low and then sit on that handicap but never play competition rounds and fool themselves into thinking they are nearly a scratch because they had a 78 on an easy course in easy conditions once, noting that Tiger Woods shot 74 at Bethpage Black in a hurricane - only 4 better than them.

Their maths says that Tger is a "scratch" (when he's probably a +11) and they are only four shots worse than him.

Edited January 1, 2020 by leftybutnotPM

[Bonvivant]

20 minutes ago, leftybutnotPM said:

No reason? - what about the reason that it is the dream of every person who has even played the game, but may have been achieved a few times. Maybe once in every several million attempts.

Dreams are different than goals. It is logical fallacy to conflate the two. Sure I'd love to be scratch, and dream of it, but I wouldn't dare say that I am attempting to become a scratch golfer, and I would assume that you are the same, as are the vast majority that play this game that we love so much. It's one thing to dream of being a billionaire, it is a completely different thing to have the goal of becoming one, and a plan to make that goal a reality.

As far as the people that don't card all their rounds, they are only cheating themselves. If you play with them you will know exactly how they play. I once played with a kid that took any putt inside of 5 ft as a gimme. He claimed at the beginning of the round that he was scratch (or off 1 or 2 or something close), and even with the gimmes, he still shot like 8 over. Anyone that ever plays with him knows that he's just a liar/bragger, and they will treat him with whatever respect that they generally give to those types.

I don't know anyone that plays and thinks that they are only 4 shots worse than Tiger, even if they carry a true close to scratch handicap. You might get that same bragger from the last paragraph saying that crap, but no one takes them seriously. I would hope that someone that is coming to this forum looking for info and help wouldn't turn around and only post those great scores and then look for congratulations from us.

[criley4way]

2 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

It is possible if you have the talent of Greg Norman.

It would be one of the greatest sporting achievements in the history if you did.

My guess is that you have never played with a scratch marker or seen a professional hit the ball in real life.

And....if you are honest about it you'll find that getting from 18 to 4 is easier than getting from 4 to scratch.

In other words............ no.

Man that is demoralizing. I am at a 4,3 (traveling HCP not home course) and would love to get to scratch in the next 2 years. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Their maths says that Tger is a "scratch" (when he's probably a +11) and they are only four shots worse than him.

+11? Nah.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

+11? Nah.

Scratch can caddie on tour.  +11, never happened in the history of golf.  Most tour pros are +4 to +5.

[leftybutnotPM]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

+11? Nah.

Probably not, but Marc Leishman +8

For those US golfers, the 35s and 36s and 40s are STABLEFORD scores for 18 holes, not scores for 9.

 

2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

 

I don't know anyone that plays and thinks that they are only 4 shots worse than Tiger, even if they carry a true close to scratch handicap. You might get that same bragger from the last paragraph saying that crap, but no one takes them seriously. I would hope that someone that is coming to this forum looking for info and help wouldn't turn around and only post those great scores and then look for congratulations from us.

People who set out to attain an unattainable goal, Like Dan Plan man are looking to fulfil their prophecies.

It isn't just vanity, it's the silly nature of the plan.

In these threads, rather than saying "I want to see how much improvement I can achieve in 18 months" it's always "scratch" or "pro" which proves they know zero about golf and less than zero about golf played at a high level.

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by leftybutnotPM

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Probably not, but Marc Leishman +8

U.S. system, and now, WHS system, we're talking about. Not whatever y'all were doing in Australia before 2020.

[Bonvivant]

20 minutes ago, leftybutnotPM said:

People who set out to attain an unattainable goal, Like Dan Plan man are looking to fulfil their prophecies.

It isn't just vanity, it's the silly nature of the plan.

In these threads, rather than saying "I want to see how much improvement I can achieve in 18 months" it's always "scratch" or "pro" which proves they know zero about golf and less than zero about golf played at a high level.

 

Well he says he is hitting 500 balls a day, and is fairly fresh so bad habits can be more easily eliminated by a coach. If anyone has a shot at doing it, it's someone with this scenario. If I said I wanted to be scratch and only get to play 3 times a week, it would be a silly plan. This is not. If he gets to 2.x or something like that in 18 months, yes the plan has failed, but he would have come pretty dang close. Just because you don't think most people can do it, and just because he put a true goal out there, doesn't mean it's silly or stupid.

If you go out every year and say, "I want to see how much improvement I can have this year", you won't get very far, especially without a plan like the OP has. Setting a number is important.

[leftybutnotPM]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

U.S. system, and now, WHS system, we're talking about. Not whatever y'all were doing in Australia before 2020.

Our system changed to the U.S. System in 2018, IIRC.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Our system changed to the U.S. System in 2018, IIRC.

You also seem to have quoted his course handicap. I'm talking about his index - which is the numbers with the decimals.

The four with the icon next to them are about +5.4.

[leftybutnotPM]

16 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Well he says he is hitting 500 balls a day, and is fairly fresh so bad habits can be more easily eliminated by a coach. If anyone has a shot at doing it, it's someone with this scenario. If I said I wanted to be scratch and only get to play 3 times a week, it would be a silly plan. This is not. If he gets to 2.x or something like that in 18 months, yes the plan has failed, but he would have come pretty dang close. Just because you don't think most people can do it, and just because he put a true goal out there, doesn't mean it's silly or stupid.

If you go out every year and say, "I want to see how much improvement I can have this year", you won't get very far, especially without a plan like the OP has. Setting a number is important.

I stand my my comment. Why would you ask people who've never seen you play?

As for the comments saying "Anything is possible", well that makes as much sense as saying "Everything happens for a reason". It isn't and it doesn't. Next we'll have people saying that golf is "80% mental" or "It depends on how much you want it".

Hitting 500 shots a day is the same as hitting 1 shot a day if you're doing it incorrectly. Maybe worse.

This guy has never seen a super low handicap player and has never seen a playing professional in the flesh.

Go and look at all of the threads of this nature. It is littered with tales of a desire/promise of "domination  on the Mackenzie Tour" and always devolves into a search for different clubs, and scores in "tournies" in the 90s.

Ambition is great. But let's know what we are aiming for so we can be realistic.

AND I KNOW HE DOESN'T SAY HE WANTS TO BE A PGATour PRO.

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

You also seem to have quoted his course handicap. I'm talking about his index - which is the numbers with the decimals.

The four with the icon next to them are about +5.4.

True. As of today it's +5.6. Down from +6.8 a fortnight ago.

 

I get your point. My point is pretty much that scratch (as you know) is shit.* 

 

* Tom Coyne

Anyone who hasn't should read Paper Tiger.

Edited January 2, 2020 by leftybutnotPM

[Bonvivant]

2 minutes ago, leftybutnotPM said:

I stand my my comment. Why would you ask people who've never seen you play.

As for the comments saying "Anything is possible", well that makes as much sense as saying "Everything happens for a reason". It isn't and it doesn't. Next we'll have people saying that golf is "80% mental" or "It depends on how much you want it".

Hitting 500 shots a day is the same as hitting 1 shot a day if you're doing it incorrectly. Maybe worse.

This guy has never seen a super low handicap player and has never seen a playing professional in the flesh.

Go and look at all of the threads of this nature. It is littered with tales of a desire/promise of "domination  on the Mackenzie Tour" and always devolves into a search for different clubs, and scores in "tournies" in the 90s.

Ambition is great. But let's know what we are aiming for so we can realistic.

If you don't think that someone who has a coach and is hitting that many balls doesn't have a chance to get extremely good extremely fast then you must be a blast a parties. I would say that most scratch golfers don't hit that much/spend that much time playing, and being fresh and new means there is real potential for this to happen.

I haven't been on the forum that long and I have never seen another post like this. The OP hasn't said anything in a while, but I would love to hear updates from them as this progresses through the 18 months.

I know that golf is hard, but someone with that much time to put into the game, with someone to lead them has a chance of doing this. It's not a sure thing, maybe only 10% or possibly less, but its a far higher percentage than any other new golfer, or mid handicaper TBH.

[leftybutnotPM]

4 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

If you don't think that someone who has a coach and is hitting that many balls doesn't have a chance to get extremely good extremely fast then you must be a blast a parties.

This is not a joke forum is it? Does every post have to be affirming and positive?

OK - here's a joke for you:

My response to the OP is - "Sure. If only I had the time I think I could do it. K.J. Choi picked up golf later in life and Ian Poulter was a 4 handicap when he turned pro. Greg Norman never touched a golf club until he was 16. Anything is possible. I reckon you can do it if you really want it badly enough.  

Care to name anyone who's gone from beginner to scratch in 18 months? Apart from Greg Norman, of course.

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by leftybutnotPM