LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[dennyjones]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

SI said it was a revenue sharing deal.

https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golf-on-verge-of-announcing-tv-deal-with-cw-network

Or maybe they'll pay, but then split the revenues after that.

I wonder if the CW will require their TV superheros show up in cosplay at the golf tournaments.   Isn't that what the reputation of the CW?

• Green Arrow
• Superman
• Stargirl
• Lost Girl

and many more.   

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, dennyjones said:

I wonder if the CW will require their TV superheros show up in cosplay at the golf tournaments.   Isn't that what the reputation of the CW?

• Green Arrow
• Superman
• Stargirl
• Lost Girl

and many more.   

The CW has one of my favorite shows Penn and Teller Fool Us. Maybe they will have Teller come and pull Greg Norman’s head out of his ass live!

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

The CW has one of my favorite shows Penn and Teller Fool Us. Maybe they will have Teller come and pull Greg Norman’s head out of his ass live!

^^^OMG that was funny 🤣🤣🤣

[iacas]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[DaveP043]

This is from Sportico, for which I don't have a subscription, but Yahoo has published the entire article:

Nielsen Ratings Currency Will Not Back LIV Golf Ad Inventory on the CW

---

The Saudi-backed challenger to the PGA Tour has landed a U.S. broadcast TV deal, as LIV Golf on Thursday announced it had inked a multiyear distribution pact with the CW. Per terms of the agreement, Nexstar’s the CW will air 14...

Apparently the Nielsen system doesn't rate CW programming outside of a couple of hours of prime time.  Consequently, advertisers won't be able to get a very accurate idea of viewership, they'll have to rely on CW's in house estimates.  I don't know much about that business, but this seems to be at least a minor obstacle to attracting advertisers. 

[ChetlovesMer]

8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

This is from Sportico, for which I don't have a subscription, but Yahoo has published the entire article:

Nielsen Ratings Currency Will Not Back LIV Golf Ad Inventory on the CW

---

The Saudi-backed challenger to the PGA Tour has landed a U.S. broadcast TV deal, as LIV Golf on Thursday announced it had inked a multiyear distribution pact with the CW. Per terms of the agreement, Nexstar’s the CW will air 14...

Apparently the Nielsen system doesn't rate CW programming outside of a couple of hours of prime time.  Consequently, advertisers won't be able to get a very accurate idea of viewership, they'll have to rely on CW's in house estimates.  I don't know much about that business, but this seems to be at least a minor obstacle to attracting advertisers. 

It's interesting on how its phrased. The story I heard on the radio yesterday said words to the effect of most sports TV deals the league gets paid. The network pays the league to carry their games/events etc.. It sighted that the PGA tour gets paid like 600 million for the rights to carry it on TV. The NFL gets paid close to $60 billion (yeah, with a "B"). This deal is different in that LIV Golf paid the network to carry them. I guess the CW needs the cash, LIV needs a partner = Win/Win. 

The radio story didn't say how much LIV is paying. But it made it clear that it's LIV that is paying not the CW paying. 

[DaveP043]

2 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

It's interesting on how its phrased. The story I heard on the radio yesterday said words to the effect of most sports TV deals the league gets paid. The network pays the league to carry their games/events etc.. It sighted that the PGA tour gets paid like 600 million for the rights to carry it on TV. The NFL gets paid close to $60 billion (yeah, with a "B"). This deal is different in that LIV Golf paid the network to carry them. I guess the CW needs the cash, LIV needs a partner = Win/Win. 

The radio story didn't say how much LIV is paying. But it made it clear that it's LIV that is paying not the CW paying. 

Actually I read it differently.  LIV will be paying for production of the telecasts, and CW isn't paying LIV for the rights, but I didn't read that LIV is paying CW.  I did read that revenues (from ads, I believe) will be shared.  The more recent article I posted simply says that ad rates won't be able to be calculated using the normal measurements of viewers.

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Actually I read it differently.  LIV will be paying for production of the telecasts, and CW isn't paying LIV for the rights, but I didn't read that LIV is paying CW.  I did read that revenues (from ads, I believe) will be shared.  The more recent article I posted simply says that ad rates won't be able to be calculated using the normal measurements of viewers.

Very low risk add for the CW.

They get live sports at no real cost to them.

[ChetlovesMer]

9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Actually I read it differently.  LIV will be paying for production of the telecasts, and CW isn't paying LIV for the rights, but I didn't read that LIV is paying CW.  I did read that revenues (from ads, I believe) will be shared.  The more recent article I posted simply says that ad rates won't be able to be calculated using the normal measurements of viewers.

All of that could be. I drive around a lot for my job and my radio is pretty much always tuned to sports talk. The talking heads I heard definitely made it sound as if LIV was going to pay CW to air their tournaments. They cited CW's need to be profitable by a certain date as one of the primary reasons they took on the deal. 

[iacas]

National Press Club issues statement on LIV’s TV deal with CW Network

---

The National Press Club is not happy.

[nvkevin]

This is all very interesting to me as the way the typical American sports industry and TV industry merge.  It always has seemed that the broadcast stations pay big bucks to the sports associations to air their competitions and use the advertising dollars to backfill/cover the expense.  Now, we are seeing the LIV tour, that is already highly controversial, have to PAY the broadcast station?  Seems a bit backwards, which we all know it is, but I think that it goes to show the appetite of the american TV industry for Saudi backed sports associations.  Moreover, I feel that it also shows how the broadcast stations believe the viewership will treat the tour.  We all know there are some big names on the LIV tour, but the broadcast stations must feel that the American people will not look past the history of the Saudi money.

This may have all been discussed already, but just my thoughts on the matter.

23 minutes ago, iacas said:

National Press Club issues statement on LIV’s TV deal with CW Network

---

The National Press Club is not happy.

That is about as direct a statement as you can make.  Wow.  

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, nvkevin said:

This is all very interesting to me as the way the typical American sports industry and TV industry merge.

The "normal" way seems perfectly normal to me.  The sports industry is at its base "entertainment".  The tournaments are simply a commodity to sell.  The networks buy that commodity, and then in turn "re-sell" it to the advertisers, who use it as a billboard.  Its value as a billboard depends on viewers.

As you say, the major networks don't know that there will be enough viewers to attract advertising, whether due to the Saudi connection or to the format and the players, so they're not interested.  I don't think LIV is paying CW directly, from what I've read, they're simply lending their commodity to the CW, and will take a cut of what CW can bring in from advertising.  This seems a bit like a consignment shop model, rather than a more traditional retail store model.  But now that LIV will be on TV in some format, it'll be possible to draw some kind of comparisons between the two in terms of fan interest.

[nvkevin]

52 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The "normal" way seems perfectly normal to me.  The sports industry is at its base "entertainment".  The tournaments are simply a commodity to sell.  The networks buy that commodity, and then in turn "re-sell" it to the advertisers, who use it as a billboard.  Its value as a billboard depends on viewers.

As you say, the major networks don't know that there will be enough viewers to attract advertising, whether due to the Saudi connection or to the format and the players, so they're not interested.  I don't think LIV is paying CW directly, from what I've read, they're simply lending their commodity to the CW, and will take a cut of what CW can bring in from advertising.  This seems a bit like a consignment shop model, rather than a more traditional retail store model.  But now that LIV will be on TV in some format, it'll be possible to draw some kind of comparisons between the two in terms of fan interest.

I agree with you 100%. You articulated it much better than I did haha. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Well they got right to the point on this one... I'm thankful that we can post and discuss this here, unlike another heavily censored golf forum. 

We are deeply disappointed': National Press Club issues statement after LIV Golf announces TV deal with The CW Network

 

"We are deeply disappointed that a company that makes money from news like Nexstar would agree to participate in such a shameful PR stunt as LIV Golf, which is fundamentally designed to rehabilitate the Saudi reputation, tarnished irreparably by the state-ordered gruesome murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in October 2018..."

National Press Club issues statement on LIV’s TV deal with CW Network

---

The National Press Club is not happy.

 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:41 AM, DaveP043 said:

I don't think LIV is paying CW directly,

ESPN Radio's broadcasters are still saying that LIV IS paying CW directly to air their tournaments. They say the amount they are paying is undisclosed, and they've made some guesses, but they are definitely reporting that LIV is paying the CW. 

[iacas]

53 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Well they got right to the point on this one... I'm thankful that we can post and discuss this here, unlike another heavily censored golf forum.

We linked to that a few posts up, yeah.

[DaveP043]

31 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

ESPN Radio's broadcasters are still saying that LIV IS paying CW directly to air their tournaments. They say the amount they are paying is undisclosed, and they've made some guesses, but they are definitely reporting that LIV is paying the CW. 

I just did a quick search, and didn't see that reported in any article I read, but who really knows?  LIV is consistently reported as paying to produce the telecasts, and advertising revenues will be shared on some manner.  I've consistently read that CW will not be paying LIV, but can't find anything that says LIV will be paying CW.  I guess we'll find out eventually.

[DeadMan]

Another departure from LIV, this time the managing director, who is Saudi and the head of the Saudi Golf Federation. This will lead to Norman doing more. I do not understanding why elevating Greg Norman is a good idea at all, but it's happening.

https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golf-2023-schedule-greg-norman-elevated-role

And the full schedule is out:

https://www.si.com/golf/news/2023-liv-golf-league-schedule

These courses have zero appeal to me. And the big, season-ending event will take place in the middle of the night for American viewers. 

This has been mismanaged badly. I'm not sure I give this much longer without some big changes. Norman's only goal is to crush the PGA Tour, and it doesn't seem like that will happen. Imagine if LIV had done something with women's golf and not tried to upend the entire men's professional golf ecosystem.