Spectator Tracking via RFID at PGA Tour Events

[iacas]

No grandstands, spectator tracking among safety protocols at Memorial

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Memorial Tournament director Dan Sullivan outlined various new social distancing protocols for fans as they plan to host spectators on-site in July.

Here's the part I'm not sure I like at all:

Quote

Among the biggest changes expected at the Memorial is tracking the whereabouts of fans. While there will be fewer spectators allowed on tournament grounds — ticket sales have purposefully been slowed to keep from over-populating — each spectator badge (and the badges of tournament staff/volunteers) will have within it an RFID tag. “At any time we can know, around the golf course, how many people are collecting in a certain area,” Sullivan said.

There are easier and less personally identifying ways to see how many people are "collecting in a certain area." Especially when you have a few hundred staff and volunteers, cameras, a blimp, etc.

[dennyjones]

I realize that when you go to an event that you have volunteered to adhere to their rules and regulations.     Nobody is forcing people to go events.   Our personal information is shared with either Apple or Google and we voluntarily gave that information to them.     That being said, I am very uncomfortable with an organized event tracking my location, even if they believe it is in my best interest.    

 

[jmanbooyaa]

That is a dangerous path to go down. Not in favor of this at all. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, dennyjones said:

Our personal information is shared with either Apple or Google and we voluntarily gave that information to them.

I'm glad you added the last sentence, because elsewhere some of the "arguments" against me are "well, credit card companies are already tracking you" or "You've already given Facebook everything in your life basically". Those are bad arguments because this is an additional layer, another step in the direction of tracking.

Also a bad argument: "Just don't go to the tournament." Again, of course that's the choice I have, but it sucks that that's now the choice versus what the choice was the year before, when "you'll be tracked at an even deeper level" was not on the list of pros and cons.

[jmanbooyaa]

@iacas I agree simply not going to an event is not an answer. It will not stop and only have them push the envelope further.  

[CarlSpackler]

I personally do not plan to go. I’m not that concerned about someone knowing where I am, but I don’t like the principle. I fear that Covid-19 will be used as an excuse to start tracking personal movement in general. 

[iacas]

Apple and Google (more so Apple, but if they're sharing in the endeavor with Apple, I can trust Google a bit here too) are working on frameworks to allow contact tracing while still respecting privacy.

But that's a ways off, and is something you'd opt into (or not).

I too fear (not greatly, but a tiny bit) that every time something like this happens, we give up more privacy. Look at what we gave up after 9/11, and the "security theater" at airports. Random searches of passengers? Look at the license plate trackers that are being used everywhere these days, not just to track criminals, but anyone out and about running errands.

This is another step down a path.

[jmanbooyaa]

Let freedom reign! 

[Double Mocha Man]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

Apple and Google (more so Apple, but if they're sharing in the endeavor with Apple, I can trust Google a bit here too) are working on frameworks to allow contact tracing while still respecting privacy.

But that's a ways off, and is something you'd opt into (or not).

I too fear (not greatly, but a tiny bit) that every time something like this happens, we give up more privacy. Look at what we gave up after 9/11, and the "security theater" at airports. Random searches of passengers? Look at the license plate trackers that are being used everywhere these days, not just to track criminals, but anyone out and about running errands.

This is another step down a path.

Hell, with cameras everywhere these days I can't even flip myself off in public anymore.  I think we all gave up total privacy years ago.  As far as license plate readers the police can pull over those with warrants, no valid driver's license, or tabs, and no insurance.  If you have nothing to hide you are fine.

[DeadMan]

Eh, as presented in the article, this doesn't strike me as a deal. I'd withhold final judgment for more details. All they are doing is tracking the number of RFID devices in an area. This is something that could be done without technology, and the reason to do it with RFID is to reduce the man power needed at the tournament. Counting the number of people in an area does not implicate any privacy or data collection concerns. 

If it goes beyond that, then let's talk. 

[iacas]

Things almost never go backward Dan.

[DeadMan]

23 minutes ago, iacas said:

Things almost never go backward Dan.

Slippery slope arguments are bad arguments. Figure out where it bothers you, and stop it there. If this bothers you, fine. It does not bother me. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by DeadMan

[iacas]

1 hour ago, DeadMan said:

Slippery slope arguments are bad arguments.

Good thing I’m not making one.

Yeah, this passes the line for me. It’s scummy.

Under the guise of “safety.”

[CarlSpackler]

I remember talking to someone about RFID at a trade show years ago. They were saying how you could track people around your facility using RFID. I asked if they thought people would stand for that. He looked at me like I was nuts. I told that it would only be wise tracking things that weren’t human because people get antsy about such things. Hell, people get weirded out that they have to use badges to enter the building because it logs their entry time which makes it more difficult to have their buddies clock in for them. 
With that being said, it would be nice to track employees bathroom time, because some people think it’s a social media stall. 

[dennyjones]

My personal experience comes from the auto industry.   When I first hired into A.C. Sparkplug we weren't required to use a badge to get into the building.   Years later they installed turnstiles to get into the plant and said it was for our safety and the swipe of the badge wouldn't be used as a time clock or used for discipline purposes.   Well times have changed...The swipe at the turnstile is now your official start time and they are disciplining people for swiping just a few minutes before the actual start time.     What we've seen happen in the auto industry and I'm sure in other manufacturing places, you give a little under the guise of what's in your/companies best interest and it creeps upon you so slowly that you don't realize you've given away some freedom.   Was this a necessity?  Maybe, but "it's a slippery slope".  

Right now we think that a microchip in a dog is a great thing.   We can find our dog when he's lost.    It's not a stretch to go from RFID tags at the Masters to an implanted microchip for everyone to determine if they've had a vaccine for Covid-19 or any other virus.    Just to remind everyone right now Apple and Google are working on a "voluntary" tracking system for just that.  Obviously they haven't attached a microchip to they software but "it's a slippery slope".  

 

[CarlSpackler]

The conspiracy theory is that it will be introduced as a convenience to avoid having to show proof that you have a vaccination, etc. It would then become a requirement as a matter of public safety. 

[DeadMan]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Good thing I’m not making one.

Yeah, this passes the line for me. It’s scummy.

Under the guise of “safety.”

I don't get it, then. If you simply go the PGA Tour website, you're providing them a similar amount of information. What's the concern, given what we know about this plan?

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

I don't get it, then. If you simply go the PGA Tour website, you're providing them a similar amount of information. What's the concern, given what we know about this plan?

Pretty simple: I’m not tracked on the property before. I could be with this.

At I’ve said, it’s another steep down a path I’d rather not rush down.