Race and Inclusion in America and Beyond

[iacas]

Some simple rules. If you cannot agree to them, do not participate. It's that simple.

1. This topic isn't in and of itself political or religious. Do not make it such - the rules we have re: "no politics or religion" still stand.
2. No "all lives matter" bullshit. You'd be a dick if you went to a fundraiser for pancreatic cancer or into the terminally ill wing at St. Jude's and shouted "all cancers matter!" and you're a dick if you bring any "all lives matter" stuff to this discussion. Of course they do, but all lives are not the topic.
3. Moderators will not be deleting any on-topic posts in this topic, but will be a bit quicker on the warning trigger finger. Warnings will not — and never are — be given for "disagreeing." They'll be given if you violate the normal rules:
   • no politics or religion
   • no ad hominem attacks (attacks on ideas or opinions are fine, attacks on the people saying them are not)
   • if you have nothing constructive to say, don't say anything. Nobody is forcing you to participate in this topic.
   • use some common sense, and stick to the topic. This means no meta commentary.
   • etc.
4. No white knighting. We'd all like to think that we're "not racist" or whatever, but virtually everyone has subconscious biases, and this is a time for listening and learning and growing.

[iacas]

Infographic: Black Americans 2.5X More Likely Than Whites to Be Killed By Police

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This chart shows the percent disparity between each state's African American population and percentage of blacks killed by police in 2019.

How The Police See Issues Of Race And Policing | FiveThirtyEight

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One important difference between the protests that have spread across the country for the past nine days and nights and other protest movements is their subject…

[Papa Steve 55]

Your brave for starting this, hope it goes well.

Its made me do a lot of soul searching. We have black memebers here. I dont care, not an issue for me at all. Other members do not feel the same and would make slightly off or overt comments. It bothered me but I figured I'm not a racist so I'm not part of the problem. I would let the commenets slide. Probaly felt that way since I bacame aware of race. Now I realize I was wrong. My silence was/is part of the problem. I dont know yet how I'm going to handle it. Maybe lose some friends. But I wont be silent anymore.

[gjunkie57]

I just returned from the Ride for Justice in Harford County sponsored by Black Lives Matter and other community groups.  As a Black Man I had to have ‘The Talk’ with not only my children but other youth in how to deal with the police. These problems go way back.  Its a responsibility, concern and yes a burden to make sure our youth make it out of an encounter with the police.

Death should not be the penalty for ‘resisting’. 

This must stop.  

[iacas]

33 minutes ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

It bothered me but I figured I'm not a racist so I'm not part of the problem. I would let the commenets slide. Probaly felt that way since I bacame aware of race. Now I realize I was wrong. My silence was/is part of the problem.

Kudos for the realization. Now for the work.

@gjunkie57, thank you for sharing. “The talk” shouldn’t be a thing. I’m sad that it is.

[DaHolla]

Thanks for sharing the infographic. My brother is a police officer, and a lot of the time I feel some of these articles are biased one way or another. But the statistics seem pretty straightforward. To me, the most troubling piece is the accountability and the proven solutions. Those solutions should be implemented immediately, I feel.

[iacas]

I’ve heard that police unions are a problem.

I’ve heard that the officer had 18 prior incidents.

I’ve heard that predictive analytics can be used to see what officers are likely to do something bad.

[David in FL]

I’m a white male, so if I share any observation or opinion other than blind support for every aspect of BLM I’ll be labeled racist.

Therefore I’ll refrain from joining this conversation.  Have fun.  

[Phil McGleno]

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

Therefore I’ll refrain from joining this conversation.

Great job refraining!-Instead you made an incredibly insensitive comment and pre-emptively attacked yourself on behalf of 'the other side' when this is an issue on which we should all be on the same side.

I do not want my grandkids to live in a world where someone will be killed almost solely because he or she is black.-Where someone like Breonna Taylor can be murdered by police who don't even have their body cams on.--Where someone like George Floyd can beg that he can not breathe and a policeman stays with his knee on his neck for nine minutes for the non-violent possible offense of giving a counterfeit $20 bill.

I do not know enough about the BLM movement to know if I agree with all that they want-But I doubt many people agree with ALL of the platform. Does not mean you can not support the parts you do agree with.

[Double Mocha Man]

It is so simple.  Black lives should be treated the same as white lives.  Personally, I've always done this.  I grew up in St. Louis and had many black friends... and we cajoled each other and insulted each other, and praised each other... just like whites do to whites.  I guess I never saw the difference.

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Black lives should be treated the same as white lives.

That's not really getting into it, though, because what "should" be is not what "is." Unfortunately.

So what can we do to make sure what "should" be is closer to the reality?

I don't know. I'm trying to start learning more by listening to people. Reading what I can. And taking a good hard look at the biases I certainly have, even if they're currently subconscious or whatever.

[dennyjones]

My family has been aware of racism more than most.   We live in a predominately white higher middle class area.   My kids endured excessive racism at school, on the bus and even within their friends group.   We idly stood by not knowing what to do.   I did speak to the high school principal calling him out once but it only made me feel better.     Looking back it was my responsibility to protect my children from everything, including racism.    There, I failed.  

When I was younger I thought that everyone had the same opportunity to achieve their level of success.   As I aged and watched my children grow,  I realized that was a "privileged" view.  That was an "All lives matter" view.  I was afforded the opportunity to any job I chose and college education.   That is not available to everyone everywhere.   I realize that it is everyone's responsibility to stamp out racism.     That in of itself is not what BLM is all about.  

 I'm a trusting person.  I live next door to a city police commander and a state police officer.   They are my friends.    Regardless of their occupation, skin color, race or creed, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt but that is not what BLM is all about.  

I can understand the BLM movement.  I was never told to be afraid of the police when I was growing up but have seen first hand racism in our local community from the police department.    Black children are taught to distrust police and have a certain behavior around the police because they are fearful for their lives.    That is the injustice that drives BLM.   Look at the disproportionate number of police shootings per race.   That is not a coincidence.    Just today on national TV new, a young black girl asked a police office if he was going to hurt her.   Thinking that was a possibility at such a young age is sad but a real fear.  Is it a taught behavior, sure, but justified.  

[iacas]

At the risk of people taking this less seriously:

[boogielicious]

I’m a 5’ 10” white male, 190 lbs with short to medium length brown hair. I am 60 years old but could pass for much younger. I literally fit the description of many, many people who’ve committed crimes. But I have never been cornered by the police because I “fit the description “. No police officer has ever pulled out a gun on me. The retired Chief of Police in my city Is a friend of mine for crying out loud. I have never worried about this scenario.
 

Tim Duncan, the 6’ 10” world famous basketball player somehow did 15 miles from me. This is what BLM is all about. They assumed he was dangerous because he was black. If he wasn’t calm and collected, they could have over-reacted and killed him. And they would have gotten away with it. 
 

I marched with a peaceful demonstration in my city with people of every ethnic background on Thursday with my god kids, both adopted from Korea. The mayor spoke, who is a friend of mine. He is also white but understands the problem. It was a moving rally. Our police force was there doing their jobs and being respectful. I was proud of them and the high school kids who organized the rally. I hope something good comes from all of this.
 

I abhor racism. I also scoff at those people who don’t think there is a problem. It is a huge problem. 

Tim Duncan speaks candidly on harrowing experience, race and police relations – Crescent City Sports

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Life was good in suburban Boston, Massachusetts for Tim Duncan. Until it wasn’t so good anymore.

 

[saevel25]

I had dinner at my parents this evening and we had a discussion about this with my aunt. I was kinda surprised that my parents had a very open minded view on this. I thought it was good to talk about this issue, and how most of us has turned a blind eye to this. Its too easy to just go along with one's life and try to be ignorant of the world around oneself. 

Over the past week, I have been doing my best to expand my insight on this. I've been listening to podcasts from different points of view and started reading a wider range of material. Trying to finally get a clearer picture on the situation. I'm trying not to just go into intellectual mode when I read something. It's easy to just start compartmentalizing everything and loose the empathy for the situation. There needs to be some honest self examination. You don't have to come to the conclusion that you are racist, that isn't the goal. It's about trying to see if anything you are doing is just another drop in the bucket that is creating this systemic issue. 

 

[woodzie264]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't know. I'm trying to start learning more by listening to people. Reading what I can. And taking a good hard look at the biases I certainly have, even if they're currently subconscious or whatever.

I see and value everyone equally. People are people, skin color is nothing to me. Just how I was raised and what my faith teaches. With that, I somewhat naively have the knee-jerk reaction that ALM like others have said. I’m not coming from any bad place with that, it’s honestly how I feel and so I think we ought to be careful by saying anyone who responds ALM is racist....I certainly am not. 

Having that said, I do think I have been sheltered from racism throughout my life with the exception of a few guys I knew in college and so I haven’t seen much of it personally in my 43 years...not in my social circles which include many good black and hispanic friends, but also understand my anecdotal experience doesn’t constitute reality and so I’m learning and understanding more about where we are as a country as time passes and seeing that I have been sheltered.
 

That aside, I’m not sure where the logic of destroying property of innocent people/business and showing complete disregard for the law and rights of others is somehow justified and, in the minds of those committing these crimes, should result in improvement/advancements in race relations and the rights of blacks. It’s counterproductive and totally illogical.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, woodzie264 said:

I think we ought to be careful by saying anyone who responds ALM is racist....I certainly am not.

Nobody has said that. And I thought the first post was pretty clear about the “all lives matter” stuff. That’s not the topic here.

7 minutes ago, woodzie264 said:

That aside, I’m not sure where the logic of destroying property of innocent people/business and showing complete disregard for the law and rights of others is somehow justified

Often those weren’t the protesters.

They were people taking advantage of a situation and were not connected to the protests except to use them as a cover or an excuse.

[woodzie264]

Just now, iacas said:

Nobody has said that.

not here - but it seems that on many social media platforms, folks who genuinely respond with ALM are shunned as being unsupportive of the BLM, being racist at some level.