I Have Just Discovered the Importance of Shaft Weight

[ajwk1967]

About a year ago I discovered shaft flex and with my around 100 mph swing I switched to stiff shafts in all my clubs. Although I wouldn't claim to feel a huge difference I think in my shorter irons particularly I have more control which is great. Also saw a more consistent straightness to my driver. Now I discover that flex might be overrated and it in fact weight that makes all the difference? That was immediately of interest to me because I have 52 gram shafts in both my driver and 3 wood and a 65 gram shaft in my hybrid( probably a heavier head too as it is an older model) My hybrid is the only one of my three longest clubs where I really feel I know where the head is in the back swing. For that reason it is my most consistent of my 3 longest clubs. I play mostly apex irons with a couple of BB OS at the long end and I have always felt certainly the apex feel very head light and I cant always tell where the head is

So heavier shafts have been ordered for my Driver and wood Diamana Kai'li 80 gram stiff for the irons KBS tour stiff 120's replacing my elevate stiff 95's and for the wedges KBS stiff 125 hi revs. Replacing my Dg 115 s200. I imagine some refining will be required but it will be an interesting experiment.

 

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, ajwk1967 said:

About a year ago I discovered shaft flex and with my around 100 mph swing I switched to stiff shafts in all my clubs. Although I wouldn't claim to feel a huge difference I think in my shorter irons particularly I have more control which is great. Also saw a more consistent straightness to my driver. Now I discover that flex might be overrated and it in fact weight that makes all the difference? That was immediately of interest to me because I have 52 gram shafts in both my driver and 3 wood and a 65 gram shaft in my hybrid( probably a heavier head too as it is an older model) My hybrid is the only one of my three longest clubs where I really feel I know where the head is in the back swing. For that reason it is my most consistent of my 3 longest clubs. I play mostly apex irons with a couple of BB OS at the long end and I have always felt certainly the apex feel very head light and I cant always tell where the head is

So heavier shafts have been ordered for my Driver and wood Diamana Kai'li 80 gram stiff for the irons KBS tour stiff 120's replacing my elevate stiff 95's and for the wedges KBS stiff 125 hi revs. Replacing my Dg 115 s200. I imagine some refining will be required but it will be an interesting experiment.

 

With a 100 mph swing, I think you definitely use heavier shafts. My SS is around 93 and I use a 60g driver shaft, 70g 3W and 85G 3H. When I had lighter shafts, I could not control the swing as well.

[Adam C]

Yes, weight is by far the most important spec in shafts. Most people don't realize this and assume it's flex or bend profile but those are minimally impactful for most golfers compared to shaft weight. The other spec to be aware of is balance point on these shafts. I wrote about this in another post but you need to be aware that those KBS tour shafts are more butt weighted than many shafts including the Elevates. So be aware of your SW when building these clubs as the head weights may need to be adjusted moving into them.

[Grizvok]

I had absolutely no clue this was the case. After I read this thread I jumped online to check out the specs of the shafts in my new for me TS2 Driver and 3W, and the preliminary findings are that the shafts I currently have in these clubs are not at all what I should be using. My driver carry is around 250 yards which, according to a few charts online, equates to a roughly 95-100 mph swing speed. I also have a pretty quick tempo and transition.

My driver shaft is a mere 50g when I should probably be looking at something in the 65g to 70g range. The 3W shaft is 65g when I should probably be looking at something in the 75-80g realm.

Eye opening thread...thanks for sharing.

[Adam C]

20 minutes ago, Grizvok said:

I had absolutely no clue this was the case. After I read this thread I jumped online to check out the specs of the shafts in my new for me TS2 Driver and 3W, and the preliminary findings are that the shafts I currently have in these clubs are not at all what I should be using. My driver carry is around 250 yards which, according to a few charts online, equates to a roughly 95-100 mph swing speed. I also have a pretty quick tempo and transition.

My driver shaft is a mere 50g when I should probably be looking at something in the 65g to 70g range. The 3W shaft is 65g when I should probably be looking at something in the 75-80g realm.

Eye opening thread...thanks for sharing.

Don't assume that you need lighter based on some online charts alone. You should look at impact location on your driver and see how consistently you hit the center and look at your launch and spin numbers to see if they are in a good range and consistent. Weights are really about fitting yourself into a range of weights and then having your whole bag move smoothly through with your driver being the lightest and wedges being the heaviest. I think most pros are in the 60-70g class at this point which wasn't the case a few years ago so lighter isn't bad for many golfers. Heck, Webb Simpson plays a 57g driver shaft I believe right now, at least I know he has recently. Also need to take into consideration the length you play your driver at. If you play it shorter then a heavier shaft can be a good option. However if you play at something over 45 inches, you may be better off with the lighter shaft.

 

[billchao]

Shaft weight was probably the biggest thing my fitter was looking at the first time I did a real fitting. My irons at the time had 95g shafts in them. Too light. I ended up with KBS Tour 120 shafts which I have in my current set (also fitted for). My driver now has a 75g shaft in it. The only oddballs left in my bag are my 3w and my 2h. I'll probably get fit and replace those when the season is over.

[Grizvok]

27 minutes ago, Adam C said:

Don't assume that you need lighter based on some online charts alone. You should look at impact location on your driver and see how consistently you hit the center and look at your launch and spin numbers to see if they are in a good range and consistent. Weights are really about fitting yourself into a range of weights and then having your whole bag move smoothly through with your driver being the lightest and wedges being the heaviest. I think most pros are in the 60-70g class at this point which wasn't the case a few years ago so lighter isn't bad for many golfers. Heck, Webb Simpson plays a 57g driver shaft I believe right now, at least I know he has recently. Also need to take into consideration the length you play your driver at. If you play it shorter then a heavier shaft can be a good option. However if you play at something over 45 inches, you may be better off with the lighter shaft.

 

Typical driver contact is closer to the heel with toe strikes being very rare. The most common miss with my past driver (910D2) and the current TS2 is a ballooning fade/slice that has a considerable amount of spin; however, that miss is not as bad since the transition from the old 10.5 degree 910D2 to the new 9.5 degree TS2. I believe the loft decrease is responsible for most of that. The 910 shaft was 65g R-flex with the club being 45" and as I noted earlier the TS2 shaft is 50g R-flex with the club being 45.5". I realize it is impossible to give me recommendations on this information alone, and that the answer is to just stop messing around and get fit already! I think I'll try to attend a Titleist Thursday in July.

Those general patterns also ring true for the TS2 3W.

[Adam C]

10 hours ago, Grizvok said:

Typical driver contact is closer to the heel with toe strikes being very rare. The most common miss with my past driver (910D2) and the current TS2 is a ballooning fade/slice that has a considerable amount of spin; however, that miss is not as bad since the transition from the old 10.5 degree 910D2 to the new 9.5 degree TS2. I believe the loft decrease is responsible for most of that. The 910 shaft was 65g R-flex with the club being 45" and as I noted earlier the TS2 shaft is 50g R-flex with the club being 45.5". I realize it is impossible to give me recommendations on this information alone, and that the answer is to just stop messing around and get fit already! I think I'll try to attend a Titleist Thursday in July.

Those general patterns also ring true for the TS2 3W.

If you are hitting on both sides of the face I would definitely look at shortening the shaft some first and see if that can tighten it up a bit. Start by just gripping down 1/2 inch at a time and see where you get the best strike pattern. At that point you can start adding some head weight need be to get the feel back with a shorter club.

Also along with this, you can take a piece of lead tape and run it down the back of the shaft starting an inch below the grip. A 12 inch piece will be about 10 grams. Again, see what this does for your consistency to give you a better idea of idea shaft weight.

I've always said that if you can fit yourself, the results will be better assuming you know what to look for. Professional fittings can be misleading either from the fitter or from the environment (ie indoor, launch monitor issues, inconsistent swing). Not to say you shouldn't do a fitting, but definitely understand what's important especially to your particular game.

[ShawnSum]

Recently had a similar experience. I finally upgraded from my old TaylorMade Burner Driver to a Titleist TS2. The shaft on my Burner was some feather light 55g shaft and I had a 1/2" taken off of it so it was super light. I also upgraded from my old Mizuno 3W to a Titleist TS2 3w and the shaft on the Mizuno was a 75g shaft and I actually went through a phase of primarly using the 3w off the tee because I hit it just as far as the Burner, I just felt like it was heavier and had some ass to it vs the Burner.

So since covid was/is full effect I pulled the trigger and custom ordered my Titleist Driver and 3w with Hzrdus Smoke Black 70g shafts without getting fitted. Really pleased with the result!

[Grizvok]

1 hour ago, Adam C said:

If you are hitting on both sides of the face I would definitely look at shortening the shaft some first and see if that can tighten it up a bit. Start by just gripping down 1/2 inch at a time and see where you get the best strike pattern. At that point you can start adding some head weight need be to get the feel back with a shorter club.

Also along with this, you can take a piece of lead tape and run it down the back of the shaft starting an inch below the grip. A 12 inch piece will be about 10 grams. Again, see what this does for your consistency to give you a better idea of idea shaft weight.

I've always said that if you can fit yourself, the results will be better assuming you know what to look for. Professional fittings can be misleading either from the fitter or from the environment (ie indoor, launch monitor issues, inconsistent swing). Not to say you shouldn't do a fitting, but definitely understand what's important especially to your particular game.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I pretty much never hit the toe of the club. Driver/3W strike pattern is decidedly heel-centric (at least on the new TS2's). This could potentially be attributed to the increased length of the new clubs. I was generous a bit too quickly perhaps and gave my girlfriend's little brother my 910D2 without first testing the TS2 driver on the old shaft. In retrospect, I did feel considerably more confident in where the club head was with the heavier and shorter shaft. As it stands, I'm placing a premium on control over distance.

I have a good bit of experience tweaking tennis rackets with lead tape (to alter weight and balance) and seeing what it did to my tennis game so applying that same methodology to my golf clubs makes a lot of sense, even if only to find ideal shaft characteristics.

You've given me a plethora of great information. Thank you.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Grizvok

[BC-to-MI]

14 hours ago, billchao said:

Shaft weight was probably the biggest thing my fitter was looking at the first time I did a real fitting. My irons at the time had 95g shafts in them. Too light. I ended up with KBS Tour 120 shafts which I have in my current set (also fitted for). My driver now has a 75g shaft in it. The only oddballs left in my bag are my 3w and my 2h. I'll probably get fit and replace those when the season is over.

This is very similar to my experience, as well. I went from the KBS Tour V90s, which were only 90g, in my last irons to the Project X 6.5s, which are 125g, in my current (fitted) irons. It made a huge difference for me not just in feel, but performance.

I've also found when playing around with my friends' drivers, I have much more success with a heavier shaft in a softer flex than I play than I do with a lighter shaft in the same flex. I've seen similar results with my friends at similar swing speeds, as well.

[Adam C]

I think I put this video on here before but it seems like a good place to go if you have any questions about tightening up the driver without going through a full fitting.

 

[Grizvok]

1 hour ago, Adam C said:

I think I put this video on here before but it seems like a good place to go if you have any questions about tightening up the driver without going through a full fitting.

 

[ajwk1967]

On 6/25/2020 at 5:52 PM, Grizvok said:

 

On 6/25/2020 at 4:31 PM, Adam C said:

I think I put this video on here before but it seems like a good place to go if you have any questions about tightening up the driver without going through a full fitting.

 

I think the advice on playing a Driver more around 44 inches is absolutely spot on for many average and good golfers. I have shortened my last 2 drivers down to this length. However shafts are a little more complicated than the guy suggests. My old 52 gram  shaft which I had at  44 inches, and I still couldn't find the middle of the face regularly. Shaft weight swing speed and transition speed (how quickly you move from backswing to downswing) all impact on finding the centre of the face. Shafts can have weight and stiffness in different parts of the shaft. In order to understand where your swing sits in terms of weight or stiffness or weight distribution you are going to need to sample a few shafts. That doesn't stop people doing it for themselves but they probably need to buy a few shafts from Ebay as I am doing. 

[Grizvok]

1 minute ago, ajwk1967 said:

 

I think the advice on playing a Driver more around 44 inches is absolutely spot on for many average and good golfers. I have shortened my last 2 drivers down to this length. However shafts are a little more complicated than the guy suggests. My old 52 gram  shaft which I had at  44 inches, and I still couldn't find the middle of the face regularly. Shaft weight swing speed and transition speed (how quickly you move from backswing to downswing) all impact on finding the centre of the face. Shafts can have weight and stiffness in different parts of the shaft. In order to understand where your swing sits in terms of weight or stiffness or weight distribution you are going to need to sample a few shafts. That doesn't stop people doing it for themselves but they probably need to buy a few shafts from Ebay as I am doing. 

Yeah, my goal is to use the ideas from the video to see how I can tweak THIS SHAFT to perform best. Obviously some or all of these characteristics may change when going to an entirely new shaft, but my line of thinking is that it'll at least give me a starting point to go off of in terms of length and shaft weight. Other than that I can say that I need lower launch and lower spin coupled with a shaft that works well for a medium tempo with a quick transition. Currently looking at the Project X EvenFlow T1100 White as a potential solution for both the driver and 3w.

[ajwk1967]

mailto:info@txg.ca

17 minutes ago, Grizvok said:

Yeah, my goal is to use the ideas from the video to see how I can tweak THIS SHAFT to perform best. Obviously some or all of these characteristics may change when going to an entirely new shaft, but my line of thinking is that it'll at least give me a starting point to go off of in terms of length and shaft weight. Other than that I can say that I need lower launch and lower spin coupled with a shaft that works well for a medium tempo with a quick transition. Currently looking at the Project X EvenFlow T1100 White as a potential solution for both the driver and 3w.

sounds like a good starting point

[Grizvok]

After using the techniques from the video to get a general feel for what I should be aiming for, I used a few online shaft fitting calculators and ended up going with the Project X HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 60 X-flex for my driver and the Project X HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 X-flex for the 3w. They literally just came in, so I haven't been able to hit the range quite yet, but I did do a few test swings out on the patio with the Yellow 60 shaft.

Initial impressions:

- Slightly reduced swing speed. This was to be expected when the shaft I was swinging before was a mere 50g vs the 64g of this shaft.

- So much more awareness of where the club head is in every stage of the swing. This is exactly what I was looking for, on top of the lower to medium launch and spin characteristics of this shaft.

 

Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread.