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johnclark12

Will Getting Fit For Irons Make A Difference?

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Hey guys,

I know this sounds like an obviously stupid question but I wanted to get some input from you guys on a situation I am in right now.

I am having A LOT of trouble hitting my 5 and 6 irons to the point that I can't get them to go past 150 yards or off the ground much of the time. My swing speed is very slow for my age (mid-20's) I decided to take up some lessons with a local pro taking my M1 Graphite Shaft Irons. A few minutes in he immediately told me that my swing plane was so horizontal that I would need to focus on getting more vertical for these clubs to work for me.

At the end of my lesson, he told me that if I wanted to keep my current swing and improve my distance/score, it would likely work much much better if I was custom fit for some SIM MAX irons with proper lie adjustment, shaft, etc.

I can hit my driver over 260 without any trouble and have my wedges dialed in pretty well also. I was hitting my 7 iron 150-155 and my 8,9,PW as long as I should be also. The problem lies when I try to use a hybrid, a 5 iron, or a 6 iron. If I am playing a long Par 4 of a Par 5, it often takes me too long to get to the green that I am looking at a bogey at best.

My question is will getting custom fit for these SIM MAX irons, or any irons for that matter, truly make a difference for it to be worth it? I am a 19 HCP and struggle with distance after my tee shot. This local pro made it sound like I would be fine with my current swing and a new set of custom fit irons. I have been through different sets of irons over the years (R9, Steelhead, M1) but have never been truly custom fit. With your estimation, what do you actually think the end result will be if I get custom fit?

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2 minutes ago, johnclark12 said:

This local pro made it sound like I would be fine with my current swing and a new set of custom fit irons.

This is the problem here.  You're not a 19 handicap because of the clubs you own; you are a 19 handicap because of your swing.  If you need an adjustment on loft/lie, those changes can be done on your current clubs most likely.  Sounds to me like the pro is just trying to sell you some clubs or charge you a fitting fee.  I'd stick with getting quality instruction and improving my golf game and adjust my existing clubs to match the swing I'm trying to achieve.  Then, if you so desire, buy clubs at a later date.  For some reason, golfers are so quick to make that next big purchase with the hope that we can "buy" our way to a better game.  Once that shiny newness rubs off, we see that we didn't need to spend our money on clubs and should've spent it on improving oneself.

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1 minute ago, ncates00 said:

This is the problem here.  You're not a 19 handicap because of the clubs you own; you are a 19 handicap because of your swing.  If you need an adjustment on loft/lie, those changes can be done on your current clubs most likely.  Sounds to me like the pro is just trying to sell you some clubs or charge you a fitting fee.  I'd stick with getting quality instruction and improving my golf game and adjust my existing clubs to match the swing I'm trying to achieve.  Then, if you so desire, buy clubs at a later date.  For some reason, golfers are so quick to make that next big purchase with the hope that we can "buy" our way to a better game.  Once that shiny newness rubs off, we see that we didn't need to spend our money on clubs and should've spent it on improving oneself.

He did mention that the fitting was free if I bought clubs. He also said he would not want to touch the M1's. Apparently they were reshafted before I bought them and it wasn't done the best way to the point where he didn't want to alter the clubs. Not sure if he is being honest with me or not 😆

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2 minutes ago, johnclark12 said:

fitting was free if I bought clubs.

But of course!

 

2 minutes ago, johnclark12 said:

they were reshafted before I bought them and it wasn't done the best way to the point where he didn't want to alter the clubs.

Uh huh.  I bet.  Find another pro.

I believe in golf instruction; don't get me wrong.  However, you have to find the right one and one that will make you better.  Once you get the right pro, sell out 100% to their game plan for you and don't deviate.  It's far too easy to go rogue after one bad round and try to fix it yourself.  Stick to the plan you and your coach created.  If you get off track, go back for another visit, but also make sure you're actually doing what you're supposed to be doing because feel ain't always real.

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I would suggest you create a swing thread on the forum.  Many knowledgeable people here can guide you better.

In principle getting fitted is useful.  However, it is best when you have a consistent swing.  I am guessing your swing is very inconsistent.  If you are able to hit your driver 250 and your 7 iron 150, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to hit a 5/6 iron and a 3/4 hybrid, or even a fairway wood.

Lessons are always the best way to improve and then fitted clubs are the icing on the cake.

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38 minutes ago, johnclark12 said:

I am having A LOT of trouble hitting my 5 and 6 irons to the point that I can't get them to go past 150 yards or off the ground much of the time.

my age (mid-20's) 

I can hit my driver over 260 without any trouble

I was hitting my 7 iron 150-155 and my 8,9,PW as long as I should be also.

The problem lies when I try to use a hybrid, a 5 iron, or a 6 iron.

Greetings, those M1 irons are slightly aggressively lofted. If you go to the SIM Max Irons you will be getting about 2 degrees less loft per iron. I think that may actually make your problem worse. Sure, you will hit your 7 iron further... it has 2 degrees less loft. But I think your 6, 5 etc. will be even more difficult to get off the ground as they will actually be lofted lower. 

Second, you are young. Mid-20's. I'd hate to see you go to such aggressively lofted clubs. Sorry, brother, but those are clubs for old guys or guys who physically can't generate more swing speed. You should have plenty in the tank to get M1's or even higher lofted clubs in the air. 

So, in my opinion, I would not get fit for SIM max irons. If you wanted to go the other way and get fit for more traditionally lofted clubs I'd support that. Again, this is one man's opinion. 

I'm 50 years old, I hit my driver on average around 260 as well (total distance not carry distance). A 7 iron for me is my 160 club. So pretty similar. my 7 iron is 31 degrees. Yours is 30.5. So again pretty similar. I think your clubs are fine. 

But again, far be it from me to stop you from buying new stuff. New stuff is awesome. BUT don't expect it to fix anything. 

43 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

You're not a 19 handicap because of the clubs you own; you are a 19 handicap because of your swing.  

This

3 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

Lessons are always the best way to improve and then fitted clubs are the icing on the cake.

AND this

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1 hour ago, johnclark12 said:

At the end of my lesson, he told me that if I wanted to keep my current swing and improve my distance/score, it would likely work much much better if I was custom fit for some SIM MAX irons with proper lie adjustment, shaft, etc.

 

1 hour ago, johnclark12 said:

This local pro made it sound like I would be fine with my current swing and a new set of custom fit irons.

 

58 minutes ago, johnclark12 said:

He did mention that the fitting was free if I bought clubs. He also said he would not want to touch the M1's. Apparently they were reshafted before I bought them and it wasn't done the best way to the point where he didn't want to alter the clubs.

It is very odd to me that the outcome of a lesson for a 19 handicap was that you needed a new set of custom fit irons. Seems like this local pro is more interested in selling you a new set of clubs, than actually addressing issues in your swing. I'd find a different instructor.

If you are really driving the ball 260 yards, I don't think you shouldn't have any trouble getting M1 5/6 irons in the air, so seems like a ball striking issue.

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Thanks for the advice. I am going to try and get out to the range this week to record some videos of me hitting driver, 5-iron, and 7-iron for comparison. I will post them in a swing thread.

The local pro did actually attempt to help me with the swing. He was telling me that my posture was not correct and that my hips were leading the swing too soon. We tried a flat-foot 9:00 - 3:00 swing with my 5-iron for a good hour and we had a little luck but I can't get my back-swing vertical enough at this point. 

I have a Garmin S60 and these are my average distances over the PAST 2 WEEKS. Keep in mind, I don't hit my 3-Wood or Hybrids because I can get absolutely no lift on them at all....

Driver Average - 246 avg. (Max 297) [Had trouble at a tourney this weekend with teeing it up too high that brought this down from 258)
TM SLDR 3 Wood - Did not use
TM GAPR - Did not use
5-Iron - 112 avg. (Max 155) 
6-Iron - 145 avg. (Max 172)
7-Iron - 144 avg. (Max 166)
8-Iron - 134 avg. (Max 152)
9-Iron - 122 avg. (Max 142)
PW - 117 avg. (Max 122)
TM HiToe 54 - 96 avg. (Max 107)
TM HiToe 60 - 60 avg. (Max 71)

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What part of the swing is he talking about when he says you are leading with the hips too much?

Edited by Grizvok

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On 6/30/2020 at 10:55 AM, johnclark12 said:

I have a Garmin S60 and these are my average distances over the PAST 2 WEEKS. Keep in mind, I don't hit my 3-Wood or Hybrids because I can get absolutely no lift on them at all....

Driver Average - 246 avg. (Max 297) [Had trouble at a tourney this weekend with teeing it up too high that brought this down from 258)
TM SLDR 3 Wood - Did not use
TM GAPR - Did not use
5-Iron - 112 avg. (Max 155) 
6-Iron - 145 avg. (Max 172)
7-Iron - 144 avg. (Max 166)
8-Iron - 134 avg. (Max 152)
9-Iron - 122 avg. (Max 142)
PW - 117 avg. (Max 122)
TM HiToe 54 - 96 avg. (Max 107)
TM HiToe 60 - 60 avg. (Max 71)

You are clearly doing something different with these clubs than with your 7i and below, so new equipment isn't going to help as much as lessons. Find a pro you like and ask him to help you address these specific problems (btw - posture and set up issues are places where sometimes lessons can help the most).  In the meantime, try this: 1) hit several 7i's on the range and try to get the feel of a good 7i swing; 2) take your 6i, choke down 3/4's of an inch on the club more than normal, then swing the club like a 7i. If you start hitting good 6i's, you can unchoke the club and then try it with a 5i. Sounds silly, but I go through periods where I don't hit my 5i and 6i well and this is how I make a correction.

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16 hours ago, Grizvok said:

What part of the swing is he talking about when he says you are leading with the hips too much?

Right after I complete the backswing and start coming down to the ball.

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On 6/30/2020 at 11:01 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

So, in my opinion, I would not get fit for SIM max irons. If you wanted to go the other way and get fit for more traditionally lofted clubs I'd support that. Again, this is one man's opinion. 

01strongloftirons.png

The truth about strong lofted irons

A good read for you.😀

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Small update on this. I went to the range last night to work some more on this and was able to get some progress with my hybrid and 5-iron with only a small issue. I noticed that I am keeping both of my arms deadlocked the entire time which only allows my backswing to get about 50% back. However, this was working in regards to getting more flight and distance. Occasionally I would still top the ball. No videos since I was alone but I did manage to find a picture that is similar to how ugly my back-swing is looking... I've attached it.

 

106496062_277222763486546_4867249286039876554_n.jpg

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20 minutes ago, johnclark12 said:

Small update on this. I went to the range last night to work some more on this and was able to get some progress with my hybrid and 5-iron with only a small issue. I noticed that I am keeping both of my arms deadlocked the entire time which only allows my backswing to get about 50% back. However, this was working in regards to getting more flight and distance. Occasionally I would still top the ball. No videos since I was alone but I did manage to find a picture that is similar to how ugly my back-swing is looking... I've attached it.

 

106496062_277222763486546_4867249286039876554_n.jpg

I'd start a My Swing thread on these forums. If you are after some high quality instruction, maybe look into Evolvr (link down below) which is ran by the owner of this site.

 

Edited by Grizvok

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22 minutes ago, Vinsk said:
01strongloftirons.png

The truth about strong lofted irons

A good read for you.😀

Hey I've read that before. It's a pretty good read. 

I'm not one of those "I hate strong lofted clubs" guys. I've argued many times on this forum that club companies don't "Just Jack Down the Lofts to Create Distance". I play "strong lofted" clubs. My 7-iron is 31 degrees. So does the OP. His 7 iron is 30.5 degrees.  But in my opinion, for this guy to go to a 28 degree, super-strong lofted 7 iron is too low. He's only 20 something and should have no trouble generating the club speed required to stay with traditional to strong lofted clubs. The OP is having trouble hitting his 5 iron. If he goes to clubs that a "More strongly" lofted, I think it's likely he'll just move the problem to his 6 iron. He's hitting his driver 260 yards. He doesn't need a 24 degree 6 iron. He needs to learn how to hit his current 23 degree 5 iron. 

It's just my opinion, but I believe if you CAN generate a descent amount of clubhead speed, its smarter to stay with closer to traditional lofted clubs. Otherwise it creates problems for you at the lower end of your bag. Just one man's opinion. 

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Looking at the picture, if it's indicative of your swing I'm going to take back my earlier comments - you likely have a very closed club face and are likely having a back swing to the inside, so it is possible that you have the same swing with your 5i as you do with your 7i with very different results. The reason being is that the shorter club allows you to fix your impact and the longer club doesn't.  Therefore if the 5i has a very closed club face it won't get off the ground, much in the manner you describe. What I can't figure out is how you hit driver that far using the same technique.

But in short, seek out some instruction and new clubs aren't going to fix this issue.

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1 hour ago, gbogey said:

Looking at the picture, if it's indicative of your swing I'm going to take back my earlier comments - you likely have a very closed club face and are likely having a back swing to the inside, so it is possible that you have the same swing with your 5i as you do with your 7i with very different results. The reason being is that the shorter club allows you to fix your impact and the longer club doesn't.  Therefore if the 5i has a very closed club face it won't get off the ground, much in the manner you describe. What I can't figure out is how you hit driver that far using the same technique.

But in short, seek out some instruction and new clubs aren't going to fix this issue.

Everybody and their mother drives the ball 260+ plus on this forum.

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4 hours ago, johnclark12 said:

Small update on this. I went to the range last night to work some more on this and was able to get some progress with my hybrid and 5-iron with only a small issue. I noticed that I am keeping both of my arms deadlocked the entire time which only allows my backswing to get about 50% back. However, this was working in regards to getting more flight and distance. Occasionally I would still top the ball. No videos since I was alone but I did manage to find a picture that is similar to how ugly my back-swing is looking... I've attached it.

 

106496062_277222763486546_4867249286039876554_n.jpg

Looking at this picture and other info within this thread and that you're a 19 cap....I'd conclude you need lessons to improve your ball striking....it's no an equipment issue.

Also, as others have suggested...find a new instructor....you need someone who will correct your swing flaws....not someone trying to shill you new clubs/fitting.

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