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phillyk

Walking Off the Green Early

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Just now, mcanadiens said:

We're talking about sticking around the green as a matter of manners. What the real purpose always had been was to make sure the little bastard eventually holes the ball and counts every stab it took him to do it. 

Yeah. None of my rounds are particularly competitive except the Duck game when I play it. I couldn't care less about some unknown person I am paired with in a casual game and what he scores, but I still hang around on the green because I have always found it the paramount distraction when it's the other way around.

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It depends on the situation as far as I'm concerned.

If it's a foursome and one guy has either holed out or picked up and he goes to sit in the cart, I don't care. If I'm left alone on a green to finish up that would bother me.

Maybe the latent thought there is that nobody gives a damn any more if I hole out or not. 

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11 hours ago, Mr22putt said:

This is a tournament and not a casual rd....in that case...IMO...it is bad form for an opponent to walk off early and head over to the next tee. This kid...likely a teen should still know better.

You're obviously upset enough to take the time to post about it...why didn't you say something to him?

You are a class A PGA professional and also a Director of Instruction.....not that one requires the 2 prior credentials to speak up....but the teen should be listening to what you or others have to say about ...IMO...a lack of tournament etiquette.

Did you read the post I made where I showed and linked to the AJGA policy of doing just this?

The Hurricane Junior Golf Tour made a group ahead of my daughter's enact this form of play, going so far as to tell the first girl to putt out to tee off on the next hole when she got there.

You can't blame the kid for doing exactly as he's likely been taught to do.


For it to be "rude" it would have to include the intent behind it. I could make the argument that since the kid was taught to do this, he views it as being rude to stay because in his mind that would slow down play. So he's being courteous by moving ahead and preparing to tee off on the next hole.

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37 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Are we sure the AJGA thinks this action should change as they get older? It'd be odd for them to preach something like this and expect it to change later on.

At the time, I wasn't sure that my way was the "right" way. I really hadn't seen this action widely done before. But obviously he has a different experience. He did get all my scores right, except he forgot one of my birdies.

So maybe the "new" way is start walking but peak at the player you scoring for to attest?

I don't necessarily like this way because it hurts the social aspect of the game, I think.  The green is where a lot of smack talk or polite talk happens.  I remember reading that camaraderie is a very important aspect of the game for people.  Even in tournaments, I enjoy being social with people.  If we are pushing pace so much by having people walk away early, does it hurt the social game?  (edit - this is the main thing for me, it was hard to talk with  the kid because he always walked ahead)There are other times to talk, true, but it's more of the mentality that we have to constantly push.  Be smart and play readily. I don't think there's any reason to leave the group to tee off.  The other question could be is this action only used in tournaments or recreational or both?

I honestly don't know.  I don't have direct experience with junior golf, and don't know what other organizations for juniors do.  But you know I'm an old and set-in-my-ways guy, I think its at least a little rude to repeatedly walk away while someone is still completing a hole.  This policy seems to me to be a measure that AJGA has taken to address previous issues, and so may not reflect what golfers should consider normal in other competitions or situations.  If so, its training young players to be kind of rude, at least in my book.

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34 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Yeah. That's the practical reason why you stay with your group on the green and the tee.

Funny actually. 

We're talking about sticking around the green as a matter of manners. What the real purpose always had been was to make sure the little bastard eventually holes the ball and counts every stab it took him to do it. 

😂I have a friend, who out of frustration, will putt with the wedge he just used.  It's always a one putt even if he's raking it all around the hole.

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13 minutes ago, iacas said:

Did you read the post I made where I showed and linked to the AJGA policy of doing just this?

The Hurricane Junior Golf Tour made a group ahead of my daughter's enact this form of play, going so far as to tell the first girl to putt out to tee off on the next hole when she got there.

You can't blame the kid for doing exactly as he's likely been taught to do.


For it to be "rude" it would have to include the intent behind it. I could make the argument that since the kid was taught to do this, he views it as being rude to stay because in his mind that would slow down play. So he's being courteous by moving ahead and preparing to tee off on the next hole.

Good point about "intent".  Not to be one of those Dad's going against his kid's coaches but I would be more on the side of self-awareness and consideration.  That can serve a person well for the rest of his / her life.  And aren't sports a microcosm of real life?

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2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

  If so, its training young players to be kind of rude, at least in my book.

I agree.  

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

For it to be "rude" it would have to include the intent behind it. I could make the argument that since the kid was taught to do this, he views it as being rude to stay because in his mind that would slow down play. So he's being courteous by moving ahead and preparing to tee off on the next hole.

That may be, but doesn't really change my thoughts about this practice. Beyond jr golf, is anyone promoting this? 

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1 minute ago, phillyk said:

That may be, but doesn't really change my thoughts about this practice. Beyond jr golf, is anyone promoting this? 

The kid was a kid, no?

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3 minutes ago, iacas said:

The kid was a kid, no?

Going to college.  Virtually non-social, hot head, but good player.

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Just now, iacas said:

The kid was a kid, no?

They weren't playing in a junior event, right? I don't blame the kid though. I blame the AJGA.

 

Just now, phillyk said:

Going to college.  Virtually non-social, hot head, but good player.

So a kid.

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9 minutes ago, iacas said:

The kid was a kid, no?

Erik, I can agree that when a young player is taught to behave a specific way by the authorities, he (or she) isn't being rude intentionally.  Outside of those types of competition rules, what do you teach your daughter to do?  Do you draw a line between "following competition-specific procedures" and generally appropriate behavior? 

I guess my motivation for asking, I'm happy to play with anyone at any time, including young players.  I think there's a lot to be learned, on both sides, by playing outside of your own demographic, but I wouldn't want to overstep by giving advice with the best of intentions.

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I think he would have been following AJGA marching orders if he left the green without honors and teed off anyway. But it sounds like he knew enough not to do that. I could also see if he was a hot head maybe it was best for him to be alone with his thoughts. 

Now I can see why the AJGA probably does this which is to get the players around a course in a reasonable amount of time so that the course would be glad to have them back promoting junior golf. If they were playing 5.5 hour rounds they would have a hard time getting locations as it ties up the course for member or guest play. 

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3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Erik, I can agree that when a young player is taught to behave a specific way by the authorities, he (or she) isn't being rude intentionally. Outside of those types of competition rules, what do you teach your daughter to do? Do you draw a line between "following competition-specific procedures" and generally appropriate behavior?

This question seems to assume that what he did is not "generally appropriate behavior." The kid left a green after putting out.

Does anyone actually care if someone is standing there when they're putting? It's not cool to stand too close while someone is putting, but now it's "rude" or "not generally appropriate behavior" to be too far away? Why? When I leave to go to the restroom, am I being rude? I doubt most would say I am. So now it's down to the reason, as just the act of leaving isn't rude in and of itself. So if his reason is "I was taught to do so" or if his reason is "I wanted to prep for the next hole" or "I wanted to have a talk with myself" or whatever… all good, right?

Your question is a bit of a "when did you stop beating your wife, Dave?" type.

And… it was in a tournament, so he wasn't just playing outside of a competition.

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I guess my motivation for asking, I'm happy to play with anyone at any time, including young players.  I think there's a lot to be learned, on both sides, by playing outside of your own demographic, but I wouldn't want to overstep by giving advice with the best of intentions.

In situations like this I try to ask myself why I'm bothered.

And in this type of case, again:

  • He was doing what he was taught to do.
  • Why do I actually care if he sticks around? Turns out I don't.

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On 8/5/2020 at 3:41 PM, Darkfrog said:

Can't speak to the situation you described, but I do this all the time in casual rounds. After my putt is holed, I check for any stuff I may have left on the green because I am a chronic towel loser, and then walk to my bag somewhere off the green to record my score and any notes for the hole (GIR/nGIR, quality of shots, penalties, etc.). Then if the next tee box is more than a short walk from the green, I usually start walking, just to keep pace with the rest of my group who are usually in carts.

I agree!  Keep moving. We have one guy in our group that we have to drag around the course. Walking or riding he’s always dragging up the rear!   We call him Ringer!

 

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