Green Topography For The Tour

[Colins69]

This has always stuck in my gullet, the best in the world can’t read greens without a picture showing the fall around the hole and the whole green. Plus the yardage from any point from the Tee box to the green, and me as a bloody half blind man can’t get that help. I appreciate their ball control but jeez that’s a lot of help, no wonder they hit over trees etc on a course they’ve never played before.

 

Go back to the Pro and caddie doing their own course management before the Tournament starts, let’s see who’s in the Top50 then bet it’s different....

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Colins69 said:

This has always stuck in my gullet, the best in the world can’t read greens without a picture

Thing is, they can. They just choose not to ignore the extra available information. Would you, playing for as much money as they are? I doubt it.

They're taking advantage of the rules as they exist.

I don't think we've seen putting stats get a whole lot better from 2005 to 2020 (2005 certainly pre-dates modern green reading books), so my argument would be two-fold:

• You might think it helps you, but evidence suggests otherwise.
• Pace of play implications.

I wouldn't make an argument on the grounds of "it's just not right," I'd make an argument on the grounds of the above, because legislating what can be done in a yardage book is going to be nearly impossible. Players can write down whatever they want, really, so how are you going to write a rule that bans "green reading books." That's why the rules that exist are pretty limited and just limit the size and scale and such.

6 hours ago, Colins69 said:

Plus the yardage from any point from the Tee box to the green

Sorry, I'm going to disagree with you there. This dates back over 50 years, and again… it's just notes on a piece of paper. How are you going to legislate against that? Yardage is "common knowledge" under the Rules.

6 hours ago, Colins69 said:

and me as a bloody half blind man can’t get that help.

Sure you can:

2020 Best Value Golf Rangefinder | Precision Pro Golf

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6 hours ago, Colins69 said:

I appreciate their ball control but jeez that’s a lot of help, no wonder they hit over trees etc on a course they’ve never played before.

They all play practice rounds, and have eyes…?

6 hours ago, Colins69 said:

Go back to the Pro and caddie doing their own course management before the Tournament starts, let’s see who’s in the Top50 then bet it’s different....

I'd take that bet (not that you could ever prove it, as we still haven't figured out how to run two parallel universes.)

Also…

 

[boogielicious]

6 hours ago, Colins69 said:

This has always stuck in my gullet, the best in the world can’t read greens without a picture showing the fall around the hole and the whole green. Plus the yardage from any point from the Tee box to the green, and me as a bloody half blind man can’t get that help. I appreciate their ball control but jeez that’s a lot of help, no wonder they hit over trees etc on a course they’ve never played before.

 

Go back to the Pro and caddie doing their own course management before the Tournament starts, let’s see who’s in the Top50 then bet it’s different....

I agree with @iacas about pace of play issues. A lot of pros use AimPoint now, which I use and green reading is fast. DJ used it in the Masters. I think the notes they have just reassure them, but don’t really help and slow things down. Also, aligning the line on the ball is annoyingly slow.

The green books are good for approach shots though. To know where the green slopes can really help. I wish they would just allow range finders on tour. It would speed things up.
 

[billchao]

12 hours ago, Colins69 said:

no wonder they hit over trees etc on a course they’ve never played before.

They play practice rounds, though. Their tournament rounds are never on a course they’ve never played before. 

But honestly, it’s not that impressive. I do it all the time with a GPS device.

[DaveP043]

34 minutes ago, billchao said:

But honestly, it’s not that impressive. I do it all the time with a GPS device.

You hit it over trees in real life too!  

[dennyjones]

13 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

You hit it over trees in real life too!  

It's called beast mode!

[ChetlovesMer]

This could make it quicker... or maybe slower. Imagine Bryson using one of these. He'd never pull the trigger on his putt. 

Level Golf Putter - Putter With Integrated Level - YouTube

 

[Colins69]

On 12/18/2020 at 7:42 AM, dennyjones said:

It's called beast mode!

I experience that once in awhile too, but not 350 yards out lol...

[TRUCKER]

I've been buying the Strackaline combo books. The price of yardage/green book combo is $125, and yardage only is $29-$47. A guy on Youtube was saying you should only buy the yardage book, and spend the $78-$96 you save on learning Aimpoint. Any thoughts?

[DaveP043]

4 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

I've been buying the Strackaline combo books. The price of yardage/green book combo is $125, and yardage only is $29-$47. A guy on Youtube was saying you should only buy the yardage book, and spend the $78-$96 you save on learning Aimpoint. Any thoughts?

I agree completely.  Two reasons.  First, when you've learned Aimpoint Express, you've learned to collect the information presented in those books, for every single golf course you'll ever play in your life.  No need to buy another greens book, ever.  Second reason, once you have the book, you still have to learn  how to turn the arrows and numbers into an actual read.  Yeah, you'll know the putt goes left, but you need to learn how to estimate how FAR left it will go.  Aimpoint Express teaches you not just how to collect the data, but how to actually use the data to determine your start line.  I haven't priced an Aimpoint clinic for a few years, but I'll just about guarantee that the clinic price would be less than buying three greens books, and quite possibly less than buying just two.

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, TRUCKER said:

I've been buying the Strackaline combo books. The price of yardage/green book combo is $125, and yardage only is $29-$47. A guy on Youtube was saying you should only buy the yardage book, and spend the $78-$96 you save on learning Aimpoint. Any thoughts?

Absolutely do AimPoint!

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

I agree completely.  Two reasons.  First, when you've learned Aimpoint Express, you've learned to collect the information presented in those books, for every single golf course you'll ever play in your life.  No need to buy another greens book, ever.  Second reason, once you have the book, you still have to learn  how to turn the arrows and numbers into an actual read.  Yeah, you'll know the putt goes left, but you need to learn how to estimate how FAR left it will go.  Aimpoint Express teaches you not just how to collect the data, but how to actually use the data to determine your start line.  I haven't priced an Aimpoint clinic for a few years, but I'll just about guarantee that the clinic price would be less than buying three greens books, and quite possibly less than buying just two.

This^!

[TRUCKER]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

I agree completely.  Two reasons.  First, when you've learned Aimpoint Express, you've learned to collect the information presented in those books, for every single golf course you'll ever play in your life.  No need to buy another greens book, ever.  Second reason, once you have the book, you still have to learn  how to turn the arrows and numbers into an actual read.  Yeah, you'll know the putt goes left, but you need to learn how to estimate how FAR left it will go.  Aimpoint Express teaches you not just how to collect the data, but how to actually use the data to determine your start line.  I haven't priced an Aimpoint clinic for a few years, but I'll just about guarantee that the clinic price would be less than buying three greens books, and quite possibly less than buying just two.

I will go this route then. I am waiting on a call back from a level 3 instructor from Roseville, Ca. I will let you know what he says.

[TRUCKER]

It's going to cost $120 for an 1 1/2 hr. private Aimpoint lesson. That's what we're gonna do.

[DaveP043]

11 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

It's going to cost $120 for an 1 1/2 hr. private Aimpoint lesson. That's what we're gonna do.

One additional cost to anticipate, you may want to buy a digital level to help train your feel for slope.  12" long is enough, make sure it will tell you the slope in percent, I think I spent about $40.

[TRUCKER]

👌...He told me about that. I didn't know they were $40 though. Oh well, that's 1/2 the price of a green topo book...🤷‍♂️

[DaveP043]

I just looked quickly at Amazon, saw one for $35, I think.  Check out your neighbors' garages, you might be able to borrow one.  For me, once I got fairly competent, I don't feel like I needed to do much more training that way.  You can kind of calibrate your feel on the practice green by making a read and then watching the ball turn.  

[TRUCKER]

👌

[MiuraMan]

34 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I just looked quickly at Amazon, saw one for $35, I think.  Check out your neighbors' garages, you might be able to borrow one.  For me, once I got fairly competent, I don't feel like I needed to do much more training that way.  You can kind of calibrate your feel on the practice green by making a read and then watching the ball turn.  

Here is a digital green reader I bought years ago. It is the Exelys Breakmaster. See link below. It is pricey. I have had mine for many years and will carry it in my back pocket when playing practice rounds. Over the years I have mapped out the slopes for all the common pin positions on my home course.

 

Exelys Breakmaster at InTheHoleGolf.com

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