Transition Problems

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Lane Holt said:

   Our dominant hands perform millions of everyday task for us that are in our subconscious mind. We never give them a thought.

Actually I do ( did ). I write right handed but throw, bat and golf left handed. I bowl left handed, played tennis right handed, Ping Ping..either hand is fine. When I try a new task or tool...I often have to consciously decide which hand feels better to use.

 

1 hour ago, Lane Holt said:

It is a learned conscious task that is totally foreign and opposite to human genetics.

I think you mean anatomy? If the human body is capable of performing an action, there’s nothing opposite or foreign about it. It may be more difficult than another task, but not foreign or opposite.

 

1 hour ago, Lane Holt said:

It is the turning of the torso ( inner circle ) that squares the face, not the hands !

The hands are the only part of the body directly connected to the club. We can manipulate the face of the club with our hands independently of the rest of the body. I can stand still and hit hooks or slices while keeping my torso practically still.

[Lane Holt]

Vinsk,

     You might want to  consider  this  . Our hands are wonderful, but they don’t possess the necessary power to propel any object . 
     It doesn’t matter which  side you choose to use - the only power available comes from * stretching * our upper torso LAT and BACK  muscles . Those are our power sources , not the hands . The hands  * control * almost all the body movements , however ! They must be trained to perform differently or those hooks and slices you refer to will happen. 
   You see - dropping the hands down back behind the torso before your torso rotates cause the big trapezius muscle behind the shoulders to pull back on its huge scapula bone so we can pull the clubface into the inside of the ball . If that Scapula bone is allowed to go out toward the ball it will take the hands/ arms and entire lever system with them . And - probably 95 % of players do exactly that . You can see it daily on any range . 
     Not many people have your skills . I can imagine you have difficulty choosing which to use for different task . This is usually a problem for the  more intelligent among us .

Thanks for your reply . I appreciate it . 

[boogielicious]

45 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Actually I do ( did ). I write right handed but throw, bat and golf left handed. I bowl left handed, played tennis right handed, Ping Ping..either hand is fine. When I try a new task or tool...I often have to consciously decide which hand feels better to use.

 

I think you mean anatomy? If the human body is capable of performing an action, there’s nothing opposite or foreign about it. It may be more difficult than another task, but not foreign or opposite.

 

The hands are the only part of the body directly connected to the club. We can manipulate the face of the club with our hands independently of the rest of the body. I can stand still and hit hooks or slices while keeping my torso practically still.

🎵The hand bone is connected to the wrist bone. The wrist bone is connected to the forearm bone....🎵

Why bother? He’ll just type some esoteric gibberish he’s copied from somewhere.

[Lane Holt]

Thanks for letting me know . 

 I try to stick to facts and truths and I don’t  copy anyone . I have learned from the best on this Planet and I actually do know what I am doing . Knowledge of human genetics is the major key to a successful golf swing. Ignoring its importance is a mistake that one shouldn’t make .

    

     

[klineka]

17 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

Vinsk,

     You might want to  consider  this  . Our hands are wonderful, but they don’t possess the necessary power to propel any object . 
     It doesn’t matter which  side you choose to use - the only power available comes from * stretching * our upper torso LAT and BACK  muscles . Those are our power sources , not the hands . The hands  * control * almost all the body movements , however ! They must be trained to perform differently or those hooks and slices you refer to will happen. 
   You see - dropping the hands down back behind the torso before your torso rotates cause the big trapezius muscle behind the shoulders to pull back on its huge scapula bone so we can pull the clubface into the inside of the ball . If that Scapula bone is allowed to go out toward the ball it will take the hands/ arms and entire lever system with them . And - probably 95 % of players do exactly that . You can see it daily on any range . 
     Not many people have your skills . I can imagine you have difficulty choosing which to use for different task . This is usually a problem for the  more intelligent among us .

Thanks for your reply . I appreciate it . 

Why didn't you acknowledge @Vinsk's rebuttal to your claim?

You stated that it's the turning of the torso that squares the clubface, not the hands and @Vinsk described a scenario that directly contradicted something you stated as a fact. 

What was your claim based on? Do you have a source that backs up your claim?

23 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

If that Scapula bone is allowed to go out toward the ball it will take the hands/ arms and entire lever system with them . And - probably 95 % of players do exactly that . You can see it daily on any range . 

What is this claim based on?

Did you do a study or something where you measured scapula movement in amateur players which lead you to that conclusion? If so please post it I'd love to read it. 

If you are going to continually post what appear to be paragraphs of you rambling about the body and how it interacts with the golf swing, be prepared for people on here to dissect your paragraphs and ask you to back up your claims with facts.

[woodzie264]

1 hour ago, Lane Holt said:

Thanks for letting me know . 

 I try to stick to facts and truths and I don’t  copy anyone . I have learned from the best on this Planet and I actually do know what I am doing . Knowledge of human genetics is the major key to a successful golf swing. Ignoring its importance is a mistake that one shouldn’t make .

    

     

I doubt this very seriously. Maybe kinematics?  

[Lane Holt]

I base this on facts . Every great player drops their hands down back behind  their torso at the very start of their DS before the rotation of their shoulders begins . If they didn’t they would have no chance to get into what Ben Hogan called * the slot * ! 
     It is very obvious in the DS of Sergio, Hogan , Finau , Wolfe , Tiger , etc ; You can easily observe it for yourself.

   This is why millions of players swing out over the top and hook and slice .

   

   

[klineka]

4 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

I base this on facts . Every great player drops their hands down back behind  their torso at the very start of their DS before the rotation of their shoulders begins . If they didn’t they would have no chance to get into what Ben Hogan called * the slot * ! 
     It is very obvious in the DS of Sergio, Hogan , Finau , Wolfe , Tiger , etc ; You can easily observe it for yourself.

   This is why millions of players swing out over the top and hook and slice .

   

   

Can you please use the "quote" feature when responding? That makes it much easier to figure out what and who you are responding to. 

Yet again you still didn't address @Vinsk's direct contradiction to your claim. Again, what facts do you have that support your statement "It is the turning of the torso ( inner circle ) that squares the face, not the hands !" ?

 

Also you didnt respond to @woodzie264 either, what facts do you have that support this statement "Knowledge of human genetics is the major key to a successful golf swing" ?

I highly doubt there are very many PGA tour players who have any substantial knowledge of human genetics yet they have very successful golf swings. 

[woodzie264]

51 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

I base this on facts . Every great player drops their hands down back behind  their torso at the very start of their DS before the rotation of their shoulders begins . If they didn’t they would have no chance to get into what Ben Hogan called * the slot * ! 
     It is very obvious in the DS of Sergio, Hogan , Finau , Wolfe , Tiger , etc ; You can easily observe it for yourself.

   This is why millions of players swing out over the top and hook and slice .

   

   

@Lane Holt, just a friendly tip, I would refrain from using absolutes/hyperbole around this forum...it’s going to get you into trouble. 

And as both @Vinsk and myself have corrected you on your use of “genetics” instead of “Anatomy,” “physiology,” or “kinematics” as the appropriate terms, I’d reread your posts prior to posting.

Not sure what forums you have been a part of in the is past, but this forum protects those looking for good golf information/instruction by checking what gets posted here. 

[Darkfrog]

19 minutes ago, klineka said:

Also you didnt respond to @woodzie264 either, what facts do you have that support this statement "Knowledge of human genetics is the major key to a successful golf swing" ?

It's not going to happen.

[woodzie264]

2 hours ago, Lane Holt said:

Thanks for letting me know . 

 I try to stick to facts and truths and I don’t  copy anyone . I have learned from the best on this Planet and I actually do know what I am doing . Knowledge of human genetics is the major key to a successful golf swing. Ignoring its importance is a mistake that one shouldn’t make .

    

     

 

14 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

It's not going to happen.

You’re probably right; people who speak in absolutes & hyperbole as well as people who feel the need to defend their expertise (in leu of letting their statements speak for themselves) tend to avoid admitting mistakes as the first group isn’t interested in actual numbers/facts and the second group is more concerned about how others perceive them.

But I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for now

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Lane Holt said:

Knowledge of human genetics is the major key to a successful golf swing.    

Yeah, no.

I’m giving you a 4/10 on the Golf Swing Guru Crackpot Scale. You lost points for:

• No visual aids. Like, at all.
• No citing a YouTube video claiming this swing shows off what you are talking about.
• No mystical looking 1990-style website.
• No avatar of some part of the body or a golf swing.

You gained points for:

• Suggesting that you alone know the truth or facts at play here.
• Misusing big words you clearly don’t understand.
• Citing Ben Hogan.

Try harder next time. You can do it!

[Lane Holt]

Iacas,

 

     Actually , the explanation i used is exactly how the human brain sees itself. Anyone  who cares to take the time can  easily confirm this for themselves by studying the research and discoveries of Dr. Wilder Penfield done in the 1900 ‘s - Cortical Homunculus * . 
    And - I know exactly what I was talking about . I would be pleased  to debate you on any subject I post about what I consider are facts ! L
Thanks much for your reply ! 

[woodzie264]

2 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

   And - I know exactly what I was talking about . I would be pleased  to debate you on any subject I post about what I consider are facts ! L
Thanks much for your reply ! 

You actually haven’t responded to the questions already raised by others here. Please answer those questions/objections before claiming that you will debate anything you post. 

[klineka]

7 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

And - I know exactly what I was talking about . I would be pleased  to debate you on any subject I post about what I consider are facts !

Why would Erik waste his time debating you on any topic when you refuse to back up the claims you've already made even though you have been asked to do so by numerous members already?

A number of claims you have made today alone that you have yet to back up

• It is the turning of the torso ( inner circle ) that squares the face, not the hands !
• If that Scapula bone is allowed to go out toward the ball it will take the hands/ arms and entire lever system with them . And - probably 95 % of players do exactly that . You can see it daily on any range . 
• Knowledge of human genetics is the major key to a successful golf swing
• Every great player drops their hands down back behind their torso at the very start of their DS before the rotation of their shoulders begins

That being said, why would you expect Erik, or anyone else on this site to debate you when you don't even acknowledge our questions and refuse to back up your claims? Suddenly if the format was a formalized debate setting instead of an online forum you would be ready to back up your claims with facts? I highly doubt that. 

[Lane Holt]

Ok - I’ll attempt to explain it this way . Tiger Woods is approx. 6 ft . 10 inches tall . Could we agree that his hands at the very top / end of his BS are approx. 6 ft. 6 inches to 7 feet ( close enough for me point ) vertical from the ground ? 
   We know that it is factual that the DS only takes 2/10 seconds . We can also assume that TW formed his usual 90 degree angle / lever at the top / end of his BS between his arms and shaft . 
   In this pic TW has PULLED his entire lever system downward on an inclined arc some 6 feet or so ( again a close guess ) . His hands are directly in front of his right pants leg and his shaft is parallel to the ground and his 90 degree angle between his arms and shaft that he formed at top - has still been maintained! How much of that 2/10 seconds has been used up ? 
    Question - was TW ‘s intent to release , hit or throw with his hands ? Since the normal reaction time for a human is 1/10 second - could that be possible for any human ? If not, what squared his clubface????

[klineka]

3 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

Tiger Woods is approx. 6 ft . 10 inches tall . 

WTF are you talking about?? He's listed at 6'1"

Tiger Woods PGA TOUR Profile - News, Stats, and Videos

---

The official PGA TOUR profile of Tiger Woods. PGA TOUR stats, video, photos, results, and career highlights.

 

[saevel25]

11 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

Ok - I’ll attempt to explain it this way . Tiger Woods is approx. 6 ft . 10 inches tall . Could we agree that his hands at the very top / end of his BS are approx. 6 ft. 6 inches to 7 feet ( close enough for me point ) vertical from the ground ? 

Can I have what you are smoking? I looks like you are having a good time in your own head. 

11 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

We know that it is factual that the DS only takes 2/10 seconds .

Depends on the golfer. Its not factual for every golfer. 

12 minutes ago, Lane Holt said:

Question - was TW ‘s intent to release , hit or throw with his hands ? Since the normal reaction time for a human is 1/10 second - could that be possible for any human ? If not, what squared his clubface????

It's 150-300 milliseconds, or 0.15 to 0.3. So, a bit slower than that. 

Yes, at a certain point in the golf swing you can not stop what you are doing. It always amazed me when Tiger would stop his swing at A6. Like, that is not happening for me.

6 minutes ago, klineka said:

WTF are you talking about?? He's listed at 6'1"

With metal spikes on standing on concrete 😛