Want to #GetInGEARS? Yes!

[Vinsk]

It’s looking really nice @iacas! What a great idea to do this. 

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

Do the tour player Gears data come as part of the system, or does AMG have that in their database because they have captured a bunch of professionals?

They undoubtedly have some they've captured themselves (most likely from Scott Hamilton?), and I have a number of Tour players as well now, too. Some "come with the system" when they're captured by GEARS headquarters folks.

10 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

And does Gears have some sort of reference parameter library so instructors can identify elements of their student's swing that need work?

GEARS actually has an iPad app that will identify yellow and red flags, but it's a LOT of data to look through in the middle of a lesson and many players will have a LOT of yellow and red flags.

I'm actually looking at building my own reference spreadsheets where I list some parameters like "max trail elbow bend" or something, for each player, and then list the average, max, min, and the top and bottom quartiles. That's more informative than it will be "useful" if you know what I mean.

9 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

Maybe it's simpler than I am making it out to be for people who have spend their lives teaching golf swings.

Yes, this is pretty much what I think.

Now, on to the bigger question…

10 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I'm curious about how Gears works for instruction.

As with anything, it's a tool. Just like a camera, a training aid, a launch monitor… a K-Vest, a HackMotion, a SAM PuttLab… they're all tools. And just like all tools, they can be used well or poorly. For example, the SAM… with someone who has poor distance control: do you do that on SAM, or do you do it outside of SAM? Often what I do is show them what I see on SAM, have them do some exaggerations so they can see how extreme the change will feel at first, and then we do some real-world stuff where they don't really worry about what SAM does (or we stay on SAM but focus on ONE specific thing).

So as for GEARS, I believe a few things…

I believe that I can "see" most everything that GEARS will show you. I've been using video for a long time, and I believe I get the advantage of seeing the golfer in 3D with my own eyes and then seeing the see what video looks like after that. So I can "see" in 3D because I also have overhead lights, and understand how things generally look. So, in a lot of ways, GEARS is often "for the student" more than it is for me.

I believe that it is largely my job to simplify things for the student. GEARS will show you a TON of data if you want (I should film a video where I turn EVERYTHING on and play back a video… I don't even know how much of the golfer you would see). It's my job to take a look at a few things, turn a few things on and off, and find the things I want to focus on in that lesson.

I believe that GEARS will "normalize" everyone. Whether you're wearing a different set of clothes, or your body shape isn't quite the same as a model (or the last time you were in for a lesson), or the camera is in a slightly different position, GEARS will normalize this to all look the same, so you can compare like to like. The camera positions are guaranteed to be identical. It's a "perfect" camera system.

Beyond that, the list becomes…

• GEARS lets you film from every angle on every swing. You don't have to say "let me get a rear view camera" or "man I wish I had an overhead shot here." Because you do.
• GEARS becomes a measurement tool. Cameras are great because you can draw lines and circle things. Analyzr lets you draw angles with numbers, and if your camera position is the same, it'll tell you if the number changed, or the length of a line, etc. But it's not truly measuring anything. GEARS measures things. It may not measure things how you think they should be measured (for example, GEARS has a rib cage turn number as well as a shoulder "turn" number, and they're independent… because you can retract or protract your shoulders independent of your ribs), but they're reliable person to person because they're the same numbers, with the same markers, etc.
• GEARS has graphs. Graphs are important for showing the timing of things, the peaks and valleys. Comparing to good players, the player themself, whatever. Graphs are another great way of visualizing what's occurring in a golf swing.
• GEARS allows for a very direct comparison - with visuals. I can overlay a Tour player, an earlier swing from the same student, etc. I can put them literally in the same space so you can see the differences, I can put them side by side or inline, etc. It's a very visual way of looking at the swing, and since it's in true 3D, I can move around to look at it from any angle.
• It's easy. I click "record" on the swings I want to record and they're recorded. The student can swing whenever they want, and the capture is automatically trimmed, etc.
• All of that leads to this: the student can make a swing, exaggerating something or another, and instantly SEE the results of that swing and what effects it had on club delivery, etc.
• GEARS is research grade for club data. Accurate to within 0.2mm. It'll tell you the exact loft, lie angle, etc. of the head at impact. It'll tell you how much shaft droop and kick it had. Etc. It'll be great for club fitting, but also it'll be great for just pointing out what people do to their golf clubs (or how they react to how their clubs are built) within a lesson. (It's not quite research grade for the body because the markers aren't necessarily exactly on the same place with every student, there are "only" 28 markers, etc.).
• The students get access to a wealth of data in their "Web Locker." They're given all six views of every swing captured, with data, charts, graphs, etc. They can load up a PGA Tour player to compare it, download the videos, and do all sorts of things.

The "downsides" as far as I know are simply this:

• It takes a little time to get into the suit, and it takes a little more time to add a club. When you're hitting, you just need six markers on the club: three on a shaft clip and three on the head. But to calibrate the club, you attach one to the butt of the club (so it knows the length), you attach a "jig" with three markers right on the sweet spot and parallel/perpendicular to the face and grooves (etc.) so it can measure the loft/lie (and the other half of the length), and you attach two more sets of markers around the shaft so it knows where the shaft axis is. That takes less than ten minutes, all of that, but it's a bit annoying to have to do in the middle of a session if someone says "okay but what about my wedge…?" They recommend you have a few stock and pre-set clubs for use, but I don't know about that… I don't know if people would want to use a club that isn't theirs. I don't want to swing a GI club, and some players wouldn't want to hit a blade or even an AP2 or something. And what clubs? What shaft, grip, length, loft…?
• The player can't take the actual GEARS system with them. I've said I don't know if I'd ever really get into things like K-Vest because the player can't take them home, they have to rely on their "feels" to replicate the results when they leave. And GEARS is obviously like that, too - they can't take it with them. But at least they get the Web Locker, and obviously they have to play golf eventually (and without wearing a K-Vest or GEARS dots, etc.), so…
• It's not a launch monitor (nor should it be), but the software doesn't integrate with any, either. Small hassle, because I can put a FlightScope behind the player and run that off the iPad, and in some ways, it's almost better that it's separate - you can have two screens of data up at once, and one has super accurate club info while the other has super accurate ball data.

My job, as always, is to help the golfer focus on the stuff I want them to see. With GEARS, I can turn off all the data I don't really care for them to see. If I only want them to look at the hip (pelvis) turn in the golf swing, I can turn everything off except that display. My job is no different in that sense - I will focus them, prioritize the lesson, etc.

So again, GEARS is a tool, but it's an amazing tool in that it can do so much, and does so quickly and accurately.

I stood in front of a student and had him pass me the club. I turned it over and made a lefty chip swing. 🙂 GEARS tracked it all, even though it was from the righty ball position.

Heh heh heh.

[Darkfrog]

Great summary. Thanks.

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

GEARS will show you a TON of data if you want (I should film a video where I turn EVERYTHING on and play back a video

This would be a cool demonstration of the system's capability.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

Great summary. Thanks.

This would be a cool demonstration of the system's capability.

Thing is you can't even see everything, because (for example) the trail elbow bend is currently a number on the side of the display, not graphically represented on the avatar.

[coachjimsc]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

The students get access to a wealth of data in their "Web Locker." They're given all six views of every swing captured, with data, charts, graphs, etc. They can load up a PGA Tour player to compare it, download the videos, and do all sorts of things.

Interesting. This was not offered by the AMG guys. They said that their internet is too slow when I asked about getting a copy or something I could look at.

Thanks for the summary. 

[Chris Brooks]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

GEARS is research grade for club data. Accurate to within 0.2mm. It'll tell you the exact loft, lie angle, etc. of the head at impact. It'll tell you how much shaft droop and kick it had. Etc. It'll be great for club fitting, but also it'll be great for just pointing out what people do to their golf clubs (or how they react to how their clubs are built) within a lesson.

I'm planning to get fit for new irons next spring and this is intriguing. Is there a leg up you can give here over traditional fitters? Can we use this in concert with their fitting tools to improve the process? Or am I overthinking this? Probably a bit of both.

[GolfLug]

Just FYI, I would be fine with standard off the rack spec AP2s or similar. GIs fine. Even blades fine. Don't think any of these will affect my 'dynamics' from my normal to any appreciable level.        

[Darkfrog]

54 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Just FYI, I would be fine with standard off the rack spec AP2s or similar. GIs fine. Even blades fine. Don't think any of these will affect my 'dynamics' from my normal to any appreciable level.        

Same here. I was hoping to not have to deal with the hassle of traveling with golf clubs.

[ChetlovesMer]

18 hours ago, coachjimsc said:

Interesting. This was not offered by the AMG guys. They said that their internet is too slow when I asked about getting a copy or something I could look at.

What? ...

I know that feel ain't always real. But that "feels" pretty shady to me.

[iacas]

21 hours ago, coachjimsc said:

Interesting. This was not offered by the AMG guys. They said that their internet is too slow when I asked about getting a copy or something I could look at.

As I mentioned at the time, that's a bit of a bummer. You can even download the separate movie files, etc. that I put together for that "goofing around" video.

18 hours ago, Chris Brooks said:

I'm planning to get fit for new irons next spring and this is intriguing. Is there a leg up you can give here over traditional fitters? Can we use this in concert with their fitting tools to improve the process? Or am I overthinking this? Probably a bit of both.

I don't have clubs with which to fit you, though. You could, and maybe I'll start a topic on this, but in short, Michael's position is that:

• Longer irons have more shaft droop (they're swung faster and the shaft is longer while staying ~ the same weight). So they droop more and the face points more right than the club with which you were fit (nowadays often a 7I).
• Wedges have less shaft droop (swung slower, shorter shaft), so the face points a bit left of your fit-for 7I.

17 hours ago, GolfLug said:

Just FYI, I would be fine with standard off the rack spec AP2s or similar. GIs fine. Even blades fine. Don't think any of these will affect my 'dynamics' from my normal to any appreciable level.        

Thanks. I'll make a blade for me, I'm almost certain. And I'll get faster at the stuff. For those of you doing the longer sessions, we'll absolutely use your clubs. This is more about the people wanting a one-hour session.

@coachjimsc did you use your own club? There are two of them, though, so that's a plus.

16 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

Same here. I was hoping to not have to deal with the hassle of traveling with golf clubs.

I'd think you'd want to bring about four:

• Driver
• 6I or 7I
• Wedge (for short game stuff)
• Putter (SAM PuttLab, etc.).

I'm happy to provide them if you need them, but ideally you'd have yours for obvious reasons.

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

What? ...

I know that feel ain't always real. But that "feels" pretty shady to me.

They need a good enough Internet connection to verify their license every time the software starts up, I think.

Even on DSL, we could have uploaded the data. A lot of it is just movie files.

[coachjimsc]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

@coachjimsc did you use your own club? There are two of them, though, so that's a plus.

Yes my own clubs. 7 iron and Driver.

[coachjimsc]

3 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

What? ...

I know that feel ain't always real. But that "feels" pretty shady to me.

Yeah they seem like stand up guys so I'm not sure.

I have seen on some of their YouTube in person lesson videos people ask the same question and they gave the same answer about the internet speed.

Busy guys, so I got the feeling they just didn't want to mess with it. 🤷‍♂️

[Double Mocha Man]

19 minutes ago, coachjimsc said:

Busy guys, so I got the feeling they just didn't want to mess with it. 

I had two fittings this summer, one with Taylormade and one with Titleist.  I requested and the TaylorMade guy followed through and sent me the multitude of stats on my swings with different clubs.

I made the same request of the Titleist guy and he promised he would send the stats. They never arrived so I emailed him to request them again. Nothing. If you're too lazy to send the stats then I'm too lazy to buy your clubs.

[iacas]

Locations - Gears Sports

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Gears Locations* North America Europe Eastern Asia Oceania Central & South America * Gears locations...

Yay. 🙂

[saevel25]

Now, I need to start a business in Columbus with a Gears 😛 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

Okay, for those of you who have signed up for this. I have to say ... It's a great value.

Seriously, I just spent the last 2 hours diving into the data @iacasand I collected yesterday morning.

I received 51 captures... Yes, you read that right 51 captures.

Then I can view each capture from up to 6 different angles. (That's just what I can do with them @iacas can do even more.) Plus each capture includes a mountain of other data. Like 10 different data points. Things like Clubhead Path (shown below, its a gif I made of one of my swings face-on clubhead path tracked), Attack Angel, Face to Path, Closure Rate, Clubhead Speed, Presented Loft, Lie Angle, Face Angle, Shaft Deflection, Shaft Droop, etc. There are also tabs for Face Map, Club Graphs, Body Graphs. 

I can compare each of my captures to the PGA Tour Average Swing. I can do that with any of my captures at any of the 6 different angles, at any speed you like. You can download the captures. Store comments. It's very cool. 

 

I would say there may be only two downsides.

1 - You learn so much about your swing, it can be overwhelming. But @iacas will help you prioritize what to work on first. I have 3 big things to attack. One at a time. I'll need to work through each. One at a time, obviously. I really want to make a couple of big changes before I come back and do this again. 

2 - You may never want to stop taking captures. I know I said "Wait, one more" at least four times and I probably would have done even more, but I simply had to get back to my family. If you think video is helpful this takes it all to the next level. 

There are too many upsides to mention. As I type this I can see in the gif above 2 of the things I really want to "fix". And the gif is nowhere near the quality of the captures, and of course includes none of the data. 

Over all its a great value. There are so many things to learn from this. If you signed up for it, I feel confident in saying you will get well more than your money's worth from it. 

[Double Mocha Man]

22 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Okay, for those of you who have signed up for this. I have to say ... It's a great value.

Seriously, I just spent the last 2 hours diving into the data @iacasand I collected yesterday morning.

I received 51 captures... Yes, you read that right 51 captures.

Then I can view each capture from up to 6 different angels. (That's just what I can do with them @iacas can do even more.) Plus each capture includes a mountain of other data. Like 10 different data points. Things like Clubhead Path (shown below, its a gif I made of one of my swings face-on clubhead path tracked), Attack Angel, Face to Path, Closure Rate, Clubhead Speed, Presented Loft, Lie Angle, Face Angle, Shaft Deflection, Shaft Droop, etc. There are also tabs for Face Map, Club Graphs, Body Graphs. 

I can compare each of my captures to the PGA Tour Average Swing. I can do that with any of my captures at any of the 6 different angles, at any speed you like. You can download the captures. Store comments. It's very cool. 

 

I would say there may be only two downsides.

1 - You learn so much about your swing, it can be overwhelming. But @iacas will help you prioritize what to work on first. I have 3 big things to attack. One at a time. I'll need to work through each. One at a time, obviously. I really want to make a couple of big changes before I come back and do this again. 

2 - You may never want to stop taking captures. I know I said "Wait, one more" at least four times and I probably would have done even more, but I simply had to get back to my family. If you think video is helpful this takes it all to the next level. 

There are too many upsides to mention. As I type this I can see in the gif above 2 of the things I really want to "fix". And the gif is nowhere near the quality of the captures, and of course includes none of the data. 

Over all its a great value. There are so many things to learn from this. If you signed up for it, I feel confident in saying you will get well more than your money's worth from it. 

1.  You look good in all black.

2.  I'm guessing one of the things you want to do is work on your shoulder slide forward as you start your downswing.  Looks like GEARS is great at spotting these kind of things.  There is no denying the imagery.  

[ChetlovesMer]

7 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

1.  You look good in all black.

Yes, I do. 🤪

8 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

2.  I'm guessing one of the things you want to do is work on your shoulder slide forward as you start your downswing.  Looks like GEARS is great at spotting these kind of things.  There is no denying the imagery.  

It also gives you a cornucopia of numbers to show you just how far and which direction everything is moving. Plus mapping and tracing and much much more.