Aiming for the Back of the Green Makes No Sense

[DaMoose90]

I read a recent book (The 4 foundations of Golf) suggesting that since most amateurs leave their shots short they should use the back of the green yardage in order to avoid leaving shots short. While I do agree that most people under club I still don't think this is good advice. I recently tried this for fun and I hit it over the green on at least half my approach shots- which on most courses is not a good place to be...

This won't be new information to people who understand shot zones but I thought it was worth dispelling this bad advice...The reason most people under club is because they do not know their actual carry distances and often mishit the ball more then they are accounting for. So IF you don't know your ACTUAL carry yardages then yeah sure using the yardage to the back of the green may work out but not because it is the correct thing to do. The better way to do it is to actually know your carry yardages and shot zones so that most of the shot zone is centered on the green. 

For the visual Inclined I made a diagram. The left oval (black is the green and red is a shot pattern). Which shows if you center your shot pattern on the back of the green there are  a ton of shots that will miss the green vs. the right which shows an example of correctly centering your shot pattern. 

The reason the "aim for the back of the green" advice doesn't work is the same reason aiming for the front of the green is a bad idea. But yet people seem to understand not to aim at front pins. So why would aiming for the back of the green be any better advice? 

The bottom line is you need to know your ACUTAL carry yardages and shot zones as suggested in LSW by @iacas. 

* This idea and shot zones etc are obviously not my original work and credit is due to Erik and Dave LSW, Every Shot counts etc..

[saevel25]

Yea, I get that. I can understand the logic of, my carry yardage is my absolute best strike. I only get that strike 25% of the time, so I take extra club. Mishits do not carry longer. 

They could unintentionally hitting their shot zone correctly because they didn’t calculate their shot zone correctly and adjust for that. 

[Zippo]

This time of year, where possible and when it makes sense and greens are so firm, I prefer to aim for the front of the green allowing for the ball to bounce and roll back to the center of the green. If I'm short, it may roll onto the green. If it doesn't, it's a chip and a putt - hopefully. Aiming for the back of the green I'm more apt to bounce and roll off the back.

[billchao]

I think most people with experience have a pretty good idea of how far they hit their clubs, actually. The problem is, as @saevel25 pointed out, they're using a number closer to the end of their shot zone instead of the middle of it. So by that logic using the yardage to a back flag works, because it puts most of their shot zone on the green.

I always play my club yardages as carry #s and closer to the middle of my shot zone because that's where the largest grouping of typical shots will be. My 150 club is my 150 club, but really the typical dispersion could be anywhere from 140-160. If it's a back flag, the extra 10 yards could be big trouble.

[iacas]

Dave jokes about how often he tells his pro-am partners “166” when they have 152 to the flag.

I think you’re under-estimating how short how many people tend to come up @DaMoose90. If your Shot Zone is short and right then we tell people to aim back and left.

[DaMoose90]

Fair enough. I guess it does depend on your shot zone shape, which club etc. My experience is obviously not scientific in any way and is n of 1

2 hours ago, billchao said:

I think most people with experience have a pretty good idea of how far they hit their clubs, actually. The problem is, as @saevel25 pointed out, they're using a number closer to the end of their shot zone instead of the middle of it. So by that logic using the yardage to a back flag works, because it puts most of their shot zone on the green.

I always play my club yardages as carry #s and closer to the middle of my shot zone because that's where the largest grouping of typical shots will be. My 150 club is my 150 club, but really the typical dispersion could be anywhere from 140-160. If it's a back flag, the extra 10 yards could be big trouble.

Good point. I've definitely been in that situation before

[billchao]

On a related note, I like the feeling of validation I get when I hit on the toe and still end up on the green. I’m not going to say it’s satisfying because toe hits feel like crap, but it’s good to know my shot/club selection was correct.

[DaMoose90]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Dave jokes about how often he tells his pro-am partners “166” when they have 152 to the flag.

I think you’re under-estimating how short how many people tend to come up @DaMoose90. If your Shot Zone is short and right then we tell people to aim back and left.

You guys have a ton more experience with all different level of players than I do so I can believe that. I guess my only point was if you knew your shot zone then in picking your target you would account for the relative right/left skew and you would know your general carry distance but I guess if you have a large shot zone and/or you don't even know where your shot zone is then it might not be bad advice. Everyone's responses have convinced me that maybe it isn't as bad advice as I thought initially. 

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, DaMoose90 said:

Everyone's responses have convinced me that maybe it isn't as bad advice as I thought initially. 

Yea, it depends on who you are giving advice to. Someone who know their shot zone, and know how to apply it, they would care more about middle of the green yardages. 

[StuM]

I have been tempted to try this but have not.  Per SS 45% of my approach shots are short so maybe targeting the back would work. But then I look at the various shot shots and many are simply bad shots. For example, a 9i that only goes 115 while my performance avg is 142 and overall average is 136 with the 9i. It is not bad club selection, it is bad execution.

[Shindig]

7 hours ago, StuM said:

I have been tempted to try this but have not.  Per SS 45% of my approach shots are short so maybe targeting the back would work. But then I look at the various shot shots and many are simply bad shots. For example, a 9i that only goes 115 while my performance avg is 142 and overall average is 136 with the 9i. It is not bad club selection, it is bad execution.

Where are the flags when you're short?

I noticed a few months ago that I was missing short with front pins more than with other pins.  And I was already adding 5 to the distance-to-the-pin when going for a short pin (advice I got from reading a post-Newport Cup article a few years ago).  I started adding 10-15 to the front pin (add ten, break ties in favor of the longer club, unless the green is very short front-to-back) and I had a lot fewer of those misses.  Ultimately, what I think this really did was plant more of my shot zone over the green.

[StuM]

1 hour ago, Shindig said:

Where are the flags when you're short?

I am not good enough to go flag hunting, I simply try for the center of the green.

[Big Lex]

Back of the green yardage works in simulator rounds I can tell you that. So does allowing for a pull or push, whatever pattern I might be in at the time. This was so much easier to discover on a simulator than in golf. When playing actual golf, I was always clubbing and aiming like I was a 2 handicap. In the sim, where I'm less afraid of missing greens (because recovery shots are infinitely easier in a simulation), I aim a bit long and hit way more greens. Like @billchao said, it feels great to hit the left center of a green on a toe hit because you aimed long right. Really takes away the sickening feeling of the toe strike. 🙂 

[Opoponax]

I'll speak for myself, but I think it's applicable to a lot folks who don't know their distances as well as they'd like. 

The only driving range that I have time to go to is about 5-10 minutes from my house. The landing surface is hardpan dirt with a lot of rocks and has dried out rivulets running through it, which can cause the ball to do all kinds of wonderful bouncing tricks when it lands in one. The balls at this range are in bad shape and some are likely old enough to buy beer. Cracked, fuzzy, etc. you name it, these balls have it (along with accompanying bizarre flight patterns). Most though, just fall into the overall "bad" category. 

Even my 7 iron distances vary up 20 yards on purely struck shots. When it comes to fairway woods and driver, forget it: these balls die at about 200-210 yards (and then can roll another 75-100 yards due to the hardpan surface). 

So what happens on a course with a new, decent quality golf ball? 

I'm still figuring it out. IOW, I'm learning my consistent distances on the course. Therefore, I shoot for the middle of the green and am always happy to not see the ball take off on a nice looking plane, suddenly rise up like it has a thruster attached to it, and then plunge nearly straight down like a rock dropped off a cliff. 

Frankly, this was just an excuse to complain about my local range. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Opoponax

[Gusset]

I haven't read the book yet, but I've heard the author make the case for this on his podcast. IIRC, it's aimed at mid-high handicap players, maybe lower. His point is in opposition to the tendency of over-estimating what one will do with a shot. It's best not to plan on getting your "perfect contact" distance, because you generally can't count on it. If a player is good enough that their dispersion is tight and known with high confidence applied under the actual course conditions (weather, lie/stance, your ball vs. range, "first shot" vs. consecutive shots in a practice session, etc.), then maybe the principle isn't aimed at that player.

But anecdotally, I see far more shots by myself and my playing partners that end up short than I do that go long, so I think there's something to it.

[StuM]

4 hours ago, Opoponax said:

Frankly, this was just an excuse to complain about my local range. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. 

Not sure where you are located, but I'd consider a 15+ minute drive to a different range if that is possible.

[mohearn]

I find this interewsting. I know my distances, at least I think I do. But went out today, hot day, playing a competition at a course I don't play much (Casperkill) and was consistently short. Was tight, proably due to still being stiff from weekend hiking in the catskills, but at least today I would have been well served to pick the back of green distance, take one more club, and go from there.  Got away with one though, pin about 2 yards on in the front of green, nailed a 7-iron to 4 feet and sunk the birdie...  (somehow I had to find a way to mention that!)

[Shindig]

On 8/28/2022 at 8:16 PM, StuM said:

I am not good enough to go flag hunting, I simply try for the center of the green.

Neither am I, but I do adjust my target based on pin position.  However... now that I think of it, my adjustments made might have resulted in my just aiming at the center, but with more steps.