Is Golf Really Becoming More "Accessible?"

[mcanadiens]

46 minutes ago, The Flush said:

It is a redneck course where t-shirts with the sleeves cut off are not unexpected to see.

You are out there a little bit aren't you. 

On the bright side, the Big Beaver is according to their website ...

GOLF DAY 2022 Top 60 Ohio Public Course and #1 Chillicothe/Waverly area Golf Course.

Whoever Golf Day is. 

[dennyjones]

22 hours ago, Elmer said:

Unfortunately, I don't see the courses lowering their fees. If there comes a time when they are priced out of existence, they just sell to a developer and up goes a bunch of duplexes! 

This happened to a course near Grand Blanc.   The facility had two 18 holes courses and last year sold to a developer.    Newspaper reports were saying of the 36 holes, it may keep 9.  

[Old1964]

21 hours ago, IceMike said:

From a newbie perspective I can only comment on how accessible it is now for me.

Acquiring clubs - one off expense to begin, understandably necessary and second hand will do the job (a little harder for a left hander). Not a major obstacle and most local clubs allow you to hire them for a round.

Green fees are quite high on alot of nearby courses but membership isnt (if you consider bi-weekly play for 4hrs, 8months a year its less than £35 a round inc fees/club) more reasonable if you play more frequently. Also saw a local Stonehaven course which looks great and is £50 for visitors.

Lessons here are around £30 an hour or hire the simulator for £10 an hour. Reasonable cost to experience it and get a feel.

Apparrel is the unusual one, you dont hire it or typically get second hand so its a one off expense, typically quite restrictive so wont get much use outside of golf (if you dont stick at it) and the cost can be quite high to fully kit out (I priced at half the cost of the new beginner clubs)

Whereas realistically does it matter if you play golf wearing three quarter length gym trousers or cargo pants? Provided your shoots dont damage the ground it seems unnecessarily prohibitive. Especially when its for course not club.

I currently have an ankle/back injury so able to ease in and spread my cost. Likely take advantage of reduced winter membership which will bring my initial outlay to £900 for apparel, clubs (new), membership, 3hrs coaching + simulator time. As opposed to £1400 if i jumped in peak season. Not sure about the average golfer but I dont tend to have that much disposable income for my hobbies.

 

The membership rates for me finally went down --- hitting 59 yrs of age has its privileges. My home course is 7 miles away (country driving) and provides for a lot of golf for a decent price. The course raised its price a couple of dollars for weekdays and has been busy. Covid golf seasons brought out a bunch of newer golfers in our area. Enjoy!

 

[The Flush]

2 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

You are out there a little bit aren't you. 

On the bright side, the Big Beaver is according to their website ...

GOLF DAY 2022 Top 60 Ohio Public Course and #1 Chillicothe/Waverly area Golf Course.

Whoever Golf Day is. 

I don't know who Golf Day is either, but I wouldn't trust their ratings based on what you posted, unless there are only 70 public courses in Ohio.

Big Beaver Creek is where I play most often. It is the only course in Pike County since Waverly Golf Club (9 hole) closed 10+ years ago.  Jaycees in Chillicothe (Ross County) is nicer than Big Beaver and it doesn't cost much more. Portsmouth Elks Country Club (Scioto County) is nicer than both (Donald Ross design).

[ChetlovesMer]

On 5/23/2023 at 11:17 AM, saevel25 said:

We have major supply chain issues right now. I work directly in an industry that has a lot of variety in material (nuts, bolts, washers, steel wire, copper wire). Everything has 3-5x lead times than 2-3 years ago. Wood poles went from 10 weeks to 40+ weeks. Steel wire went to over a year lead time. 

I can see issue with golf courses getting material. I can see issue with golf club companies getting material. There was a golf shaft shortage for KBS Tour steel shafts last year. It is not just supply and demand. 

It is part of that. Again, material is costing more. Labor is costing more. Golf drivers have gotten really fancy. What if golf shafts are costing 1.5x as much for golf companies? They have to pass that on to consumers. 

That is pure supply and demand. 1 year old driver for $350 is a good deal if the next year's driver is $500+. Like buying a used car. 36% depreciation is pretty significant drop. Cars lose 20% of their value in the first year. A bit of perspective. 

Most hackers I know do not play Pro-V's. I think that is overblown. 

Supply and Demand is in play, but also it cost more to run a golf course. O&M is spiking due to inflation. 

This is off topic. If you want to go down this route, start a topic about it. It seems you got a rant and went a bit sideways. 

First, golf course fees were stagnant for a long time. I know courses that have not raised fees for 10+ years. They are not close to being a deterrent. Courses are busy as ever even with increased prices. 

The selling of golf courses to land developers has more to do with land and housing prices, not golf becoming expensive. Courses were selling way before price increases. 

Losing some golf courses just help out other golf courses to stay busy. 

 

I would like to upvote this response more than once because it is dead on. 

I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which I could agree more, but I can't come up with one. ... maybe if this post ended with chubby guys shouldn't wear white belts....👍

On 5/23/2023 at 10:56 AM, Elmer said:

I don't know if it is supply chain issues as much as simple demand.

Supply chain is the worst its ever been in my 30+ years of working in industrial manufacturing. 

At one point about a year and a half ago, steel prices were doubling every two months. ... Somebody's gotta pay for that. 

[saevel25]

3 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Supply chain is the worst its ever been in my 30+ years of working in industrial manufacturing. 

At one point about a year and a half ago, steel prices were doubling every two months. ... Somebody's gotta pay for that. 

Railroad is just a mess to. That is the biggest issue in getting materials on time if we can get materials from the manufacturing plants. 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

On 5/23/2023 at 10:56 AM, Elmer said:

Last year when I was looking for a new drive, I was disappointed that all the major brands were $500+. Why? Because people pay for them.
So I looked for used club figure that would be cheaper.
Even a 1 year old used club was running $350.  Why? Because people pay for it. 

I'm not sure where you are shopping, but at our local golf and travel show this year, my neighbor who wanted to get his early 20's sons into the game, bought 2 brand-new but previous year Mizuno drivers for $200 each and could have bought brand new still in the package but 2 year old drivers for $99 each. 

[StuM]

On 5/23/2023 at 12:22 PM, IceMike said:

Acquiring clubs - one off expense to begin, understandably necessary and second hand will do the job (a little harder for a left hander). Not a major obstacle and most local clubs allow you to hire them for a round.

Agree 100%, clubs can cost a few hundred to thousands but can last several years.  They can be an infrequent expense. 

As for overall course accessibility and cost I am fortunate to be in Michigan where we have a lot of choices.  Yes, some have closed in the past several years but there is still a good variety of lower cost to higher cost courses.  You may need to give up some course quality to get the cheaper rates but it is available.  Where I play my league they raised costs @ 15% in 2021 and another 10% in 2022 but for 2023 they held steady, thankfully.  For cost conscious there are options including 9 holes vs 18, you just may need to give up the prime tee times at the popular courses.   

It can be hard finding a "Prime Time" tee time but if you are flexible you can find a tee time but may need to think a little in advance.  

Is it more accessible than in years past, I would say "NO" but I do not think it is less accessible.

[Elmer]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:52 AM, dennyjones said:

This happened to a course near Grand Blanc.   The facility had two 18 holes courses and last year sold to a developer.    Newspaper reports were saying of the 36 holes, it may keep 9.  

One of our oldest local private clubs is doing the same. They were exclusively private up until a few years ago.  Then when people in burbs began putting pools in, the club lost alot of the pool/tennis only crowd.
They they lost the wedding reception crowd, because that is a very competitive market.
Then they started to lose the social/house membership, because who wants to pay just to hang out in a historic club. 
Side note, the club was started in 1903 by employees of General Electric, so the club house has a wonderful old vibe to it.

Anyway, recently the club is looking to sell 9 of their 27 holes to a developer just to stay afloat.

I know in my area most the owners of golf courses are not rolling in it. So they are left to raise prices to cover the cost of operation or take a one time buy out from a developer. 

[mailman]

I dont think golf is particularly accessible and that is a feature of golf. The costs are high to begin with (and thats just in maintaining courses without having to go in to anything else).

On top of this is the cost of playing the game itself because you need a few things if you want to be good at a consistent level, first one being the privilege of time and the second being money available to take advantage of the privilege of time.

Without either youre not really going to be doing much golf wise. You need time because rounds can be 4-6 hours, then there is getting there an hour before the round to warm up, plus post golf socialising then there is the time and effort needed for practicing and lessons and all that without getting in to the never ending cycle of gearing yourself up with clubs and golf shirts and club membership and green fees and....its never ending!

[mcanadiens]

1 hour ago, mailman said:

you need a few things if you want to be good at a consistent level

Ok. But a lot of golf has been played that is consistently not good. The people that play it are under no illusions. 

It's probably different in the UK, but in my part of the world, the pandemic seems to have cost us the scrubby, daily fee courses that allowed a lot of lower-income people to play the game. These were never places "consistently good" golfers would even bother with. For a guy with maybe a $30 entertainment budget for the day, those courses were perfect. He could take those garage-sale golf clubs to the course, hide a couple of pints of cheap beer in the bag and have enough left over for the greens fee. 

Seems like all those marginal courses have shutdown around here. The marginally-financed players have nowhere to go.