Latest Rules Kerfuffle - Did Wyndham Clark's Ball Move?

[bkuehn1952]

Frankly, I can't see a thing on the Twitter video as far as the ball moving. I do think it looked like he was somewhat pressing down on the grass behind the ball (as opposed to just resting the club on the turf). The video is very quick and possibly does not do visual justice to what actually happened. In any event, I think the current Rules don't allow after the fact video to change anything and the competition is closed.

 

 

[saevel25]

The fact that the video is zooming out and moving makes it impossible to tell if the ball moved. Also, the grass could move, which gives the illusion of the ball moving, and the ball not move at all. 

The outrage about him not getting penalized is way over blown. I think this is in the clear case of nothing happened. There is like zero evidence that the ball moved. 

[iacas]

I didn't see the ball move on Sunday when I first saw this and I don't see it move here.

The video is horribly shot if the guy wanted to actually show something.

[Vinsk]

I think the guy saw the edge of the glare on his screen as it reached the top of the ball causing a slight bending of the light which made the ball appear to move. 

[ChiTown]

I didn’t see it on Sunday and this video isn’t helpful at all. You’d think if the ball actually moved the commentators would have been all over it. That said, doesn’t ramping down grass count as improving the lie under 8.1?

[billchao]

I didn’t see it move either. If Rory could make a putt on Sunday we wouldn’t rven be talking about this.

[DaveP043]

10 hours ago, ChiTown said:

I didn’t see it on Sunday and this video isn’t helpful at all. You’d think if the ball actually moved the commentators would have been all over it. That said, doesn’t ramping down grass count as improving the lie under 8.1?

8.1b(4) specifically allows the Player to  "Ground the club lightly right in front of or right behind the ball." even if doing so improves the Conditions Affecting the Stroke.  I don't see anything that makes me think the ball actually moved, or that the player violated 8.1 at all.

[GolfLug]

If the frame weren't expanding (zooming out) while the light club grounding occurred, there could be a better chance of judging movement if any. Heck some might see it oscillating back in original position when he lifts the club after the grounding.  

[ChetlovesMer]

20 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

8.1b(4) specifically allows the Player to  "Ground the club lightly right in front of or right behind the ball." even if doing so improves the Conditions Affecting the Stroke.  I don't see anything that makes me think the ball actually moved, or that the player violated 8.1 at all.

I'm with you. 

Feels like much ado about nothing to me.

[TourSpoon]

I did not see the ball move and the video did not show otherwise, therefore it did not move. Now with a better video and closeup could the ball have oscillated? I don't see this addressed in the rules or decisions, but where the video started and ended the ball was in the exact same position. 

Does anyone remember if the Rules/Decisions ever addressed "oscillation" and if so why the language changed? 

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

I did not see the ball move and the video did not show otherwise, therefore it did not move. Now with a better video and closeup could the ball have oscillated? I don't see this addressed in the rules or decisions, but where the video started and ended the ball was in the exact same position. 

Does anyone remember if the Rules/Decisions ever addressed "oscillation" and if so why the language changed? 

 

Quote

d. Playing Moving Ball

A player must not make a stroke at a moving ball:

• A ball in play is “moving” when it is not at rest on a spot.

• If a ball that has come to rest is wobbling (sometimes referred to as oscillating) but stays on or returns to its original spot, it is treated as being at rest and is not a moving ball.

 

[TourSpoon]

9 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Quote

d. Playing Moving Ball

A player must not make a stroke at a moving ball:

• A ball in play is “moving” when it is not at rest on a spot.

• If a ball that has come to rest is wobbling (sometimes referred to as oscillating) but stays on or returns to its original spot, it is treated as being at rest and is not a moving ball.

 

Thanks @saevel25 for the find. I did search for this but couldn't find it at USGA Rules. So at best maybe there was an oscillation (legal), but I would maintain even that is inconclusive.  Play on! 

Edited June 20, 2023 by TourSpoon
Clarification

[iacas]

Oscillation has never been a penalty. If you move the ball but it rolls back to the same spot, it didn't actually move. Movement is a change in the position of the golf ball.

[TourSpoon]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

Oscillation has never been a penalty. If you move the ball but it rolls back to the same spot, it didn't actually move. Movement is a change in the position of the golf ball.

Somehow it escaped me trying to find the reference in the Rules.  I finally found it using the USGA search engine under Rule 10.1.d. and under the definitions. I knew Trappers would set me right! 

Edited June 20, 2023 by TourSpoon
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[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, TourSpoon said:

Somehow it escaped me trying to find the reference in the Rules.  I finally found it using the USGA search engine under Rule 10.1.d. and under the definitions. I knew Trappers would set me right! 

Since the discussion is whether the ball Moved, the place to start would be the definition of Moved, which makes it pretty clear.  Rule 9 talks a ball which has been Moved, and is more applicable here than Rule 10.  The best thing about both the online rules and the rules app is that defined terms are italicized and bold.  Click on one, and you're taken directly to the definition.