Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[golfro]

What are "Players Irons"? Are they different than Forged Irons?

forged is just the way the iron is made. a player's iron is often correlated with one that someone of low h'cap would play. Blades, slight cavity backs, muscle backs, etc. It just so happens that a lot of "players irons" are forged. but the process in which the iron is made makes absolutely no difference and doesn't dictate h'cap at all.

[JWL1957]

I would think that distance control is more of a shaft issue, than a head material issue.

[sean_miller]

I would think that distance control is more of a shaft issue, than a head material issue.

Do you guys read any of the detailed irons reviews over at thesandtrap.com?

@ martytilma - no offset, looks somewhat like a blade at address, smallish head, not promising increased distance or higher ballflight but more than likely mentions improved scoring - going after pins and stuff like that, you know exactly what the H I'm reffering too, right?

[The Recreational Golfer]

Here's an excerpt from a web page I copied in 2004. Can't find it on the web now, and it's long, so I'm posting just this part:

Blade users do not have to be great golfers. They should be consistent ball-strikers, however. As a general rule of thumb, if your primary impact pattern on the face is larger than a fifty-cent piece, go with a cavity back of some sort. A good, consistent blade user will have an impact pattern that is a bit larger than a quarter. That does not mean that they don’t occasionally hit off-center shots; it just means that they hit 90% of their shots are close to dead center. Bluntly speaking, most golfers do not have the hand-eye coordination to ever achieve this level of consistency – regardless of how many hours of play and practice they accrue.

There is another group of golfers – a growing group – that can benefit from blade playing. Many players now do not carry irons longer than a five or a six. Instead of long irons, they use lofted fairway woods or hybrid iron/woods. Such players should have little reluctance in trying blades. Almost all players with a handicap of 20 or below can hit shorter-shafted irons consistently enough to realize some benefits from blade-like designs. If their woods have no offset, the reduced offset of the blades may improve their game’s overall consistency and accuracy.

Benefits of blades, according to the article, bullet points only: smaller but sweeter sweet spot; easier to work the ball; greater impact feedback; better aesthetics; less hosel offset.

[ET-Taylor]

I find with a blade for me anyway it is quite hard to miss the middle of the head as it is so small you are always hitting close to the centre

[alf174]

forged is just the way the iron is made. a player's iron is often correlated with one that someone of low h'cap would play. Blades, slight cavity backs, muscle backs, etc.

The manufacturing process does make a difference if the player is interested in tweaking his lie or loft - the molecular structure of forged is more receptive to changes verses cast which has the tendency of breaking if manipulated too far. And because a forged head has a grain to its molecular structure (cast does not not), a forged head has a resonance that the player can "feel" when ball striking.

[golfro]

The manufacturing process does make a difference if the player is interested in tweaking his lie or loft - the molecular structure of forged is more receptive to changes verses cast which has the tendency of breaking if manipulated too far. And because a forged head has a grain to its molecular structure (cast does not not), a forged head has a resonance that the player can "feel" when ball striking.

correct. I would argue against the whole "feel" part of it though.

[Shanks A Million]

correct. I would argue against the whole "feel" part of it though.

Absolutely not true. There's a major difference in feel, but it's not quite as important

how the club is made, but what it's made of. Forged clubs are nearly always made from a much softer steel, where as cast clubs are ususally made from harder stainless steel. The difference between the two is night and day. However, many clubs are cast from softer steel, like Vokeys and CG-12s. But the grain structure does impart some feel to the club. A forged club will have a much less complex acoustical signature due to the grain pattern. This translates into a different pattern of vibrations, which is very much something a more perceptive person can feel, or maybe hear would be a better word even still.

[motteler621]

not sure if this applies to clubs but im sure it has to. I know with car rims that forged ones are alot more expensive than cast rims. Forged ones are made by compressing the metal into a block and the rim is cut straight out of the block, whereas with cast, metal is poured into a mold and gravity determines how compressed it is. The cast rims will be alot heavier and weaker than a forged rim. This is why forged rims are way more expensive and desirable because they are stronger and lighter. Now just by how the iron is made , cast vs forged there should be a big difference in the way they feel and perform , no question.

[Shanks A Million]

not sure if this applies to clubs but im sure it has to. I know with car rims that forged ones are alot more expensive than cast rims. Forged ones are made by compressing the metal into a block and the rim is cut straight out of the block, whereas with cast, metal is poured into a mold and gravity determines how compressed it is. The cast rims will be alot heavier and weaker than a forged rim. This is why forged rims are way more expensive and desirable because they are stronger and lighter. Now just by how the iron is made , cast vs forged there should be a big difference in the way they feel and perform , no question.

Yes, you're absolutely right on that count. Forged metal has a much more consistant quality. If you look at the Maltby catalog, there's pictures of several irons cut in half (to show a cross section of the cavity in each). The cast irons look a bit like rocks you find on the beach, lots of little pits and random grain, but the forged models have a beautiful, uniform texture.

[tweaky]

I didn't read every post in this thread but at some point I'm sure (I hope) that SOMEONE mentioned that the final process of a good forged OR cast clubhead is ANNEALING (reheating). The forging process causes the granular structure of the material to break up. SOME cast heads are partly forged. Annealing the heads allows the material to (at least partly) return to it's original structure and remain strong yet pliable. Given two heads, one forged/ one cast that have been through the process, MOST players couldn't tell the difference.
Design (to include the type of material) and processing are the key factors of the "feel" aspect of clubheads.
I'm not going to defend this as it's not worth my time, and digitation, since it's been hashed over already.
Just sayin'.
Thank you, and good day.

[ronaldkuntoro]

Which one goes farther, Blade or Cavity back irons?   based on your experience....

[Uber$winG]

I know for a fact that I can throw a cavity backed iron farther than I can throw a muscle backed iron… And I can throw my putter the farthest.

[ronaldkuntoro]

You mean when you throw them with your hands???

must be the ball the farthest....

PS. Thanks for your jokes.... I'm trying to laugh

[dbuck]

I guess I must be the sucker that is reborn every minute. There is really no correct answer to this question.  Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt, but here goes.

I am sure there is a scientific answer, but as a practical matter, there is no difference in distance for the average golfer. This is assuming that you have identical lofts, lies, shafts, and balls. I think the average golfer will be more consistent with the cavity back and therefore his average distance with a given club may be longer, but his best shot with either will be about the same for practical purposes, ie difference of 1-3 yds.

With either my Titleist DCI 5 iron, or my Wilson Staff 5 iron, a good, smooth solid summertime strike is about 165-172 yds with a good ball. A perfect (for me) strike with either is about 175. I almost never hit it perfect. If I hit ten new balls with each club, the best of each group will land about the same; but the group hit with the DCI  will be twice as close together and the center of the group will be 2-4 yds longer.  My Titleist says 28* on the 5 iron.  I don't remember the loft of my Staff 5 iron, but I did have it bent to play longer than my 6 which was bent to play longer than my 7 which was bent to play 150 yds for a stock shot.

[Danattherock]

The average golfer will no doubt hit cavity backs further because he won't hit the sweet spot every time. In doing so, he will lose more distance on mishits with the blades.

[Genkhis]

I've been playing with BH Apex FTX Forged irons CB 3-7 and MB 8-P and I love them !!!! I bought them when I was about 15 HCP and they haven't been hard clubs at all! Just love them and can recommed these for almost anybody.

[LBlack14]

I find it funny that alot of people say they'll never play anything but forged irons then look in their bags and there sit Vokeys. The clubs most associated with feel in there bag are wedges IMO and they play cast.