20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

[RayG]

okay- I stand corrected. but that has't always been the case. There were several articles many years ago about that very subject. For general info when figuring your 'average' drive, the slices and hooks shouldn't be figured in to your overall #'s. Telling your 'instructor' you average 322 on your drives as a 20+, he will likely laugh in your face. He wants to know how many of those actually found the fairway, and the subsequent yardages for the straight ones. Just hitting a ball as far as you can with no regards to where they actually end up is a meaningless endeavor. And an expensive one if you play a waterlogged or tight wooded course.

[Dave2512]

He's going to laugh either way because it isn't happening. 235 is the new 300.

[Lihu]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

He's going to laugh either way because it isn't happening. 235 is the new 300.

I think a good instructor will ask you to start from the fundamentals. He might laugh to himself or cough or something like that.

BTW, 235 is far enough for me. ).

[Strandly]

I'm probably at least a 20 handicapper and I certainly don't hit it 300.

I'm not even sure how far I hit it actually.  I'd like to find a driving range with a football field type grid so I knew exactly how far all of my shots were going.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I'm not sure where you guys are getting that from.  On Tour, distance is measured no matter if in the fairway or not.  Driving distance is measured on opposite direction par 5s, two holes each round:

The average number of yards per measured drive. These drives are measured on two holes per round. Care is taken to select two holes which face in opposite directions to counteract the effect of wind. Drives are measured to the point at which they come to rest regardless of whether they are in the fairway or not. (101)

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.html

Are you guys thinking of long-drive competitions where distance only counts if within the boundaries?

We were getting this because someone was saying that every drive counted for average. This different from what you are saying is used to determine average driving distance.  Either way, we aren't being measured the same as tour pros, at least I hope not. Ha. My bad drives are usually OB, not really short.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by RayG

This... if you miss ALL fairways, your "official" average drive is 0 yds.

Technically, your "official" average would be N/A.  For your average to actually be zero, you have to have one that counts.  I guess that would have to be a whiff too. ;)

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I'm not sure where you guys are getting that from.  On Tour, distance is measured no matter if in the fairway or not.  Driving distance is measured on opposite direction par 5s, two holes each round:

The average number of yards per measured drive. These drives are measured on two holes per round. Care is taken to select two holes which face in opposite directions to counteract the effect of wind. Drives are measured to the point at which they come to rest regardless of whether they are in the fairway or not. (101)

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.html

Are you guys thinking of long-drive competitions where distance only counts if within the boundaries?

Yeah, I was wondering this too.  The criteria for TST average club distance threads is pretty loose and up to whatever your interpretation is.  There are certainly no "rules" on how to calculate it.  (Except the universally understood rule of taking whatever you think you realistically average for the driver and multiplying it be a factor of at least 1.33 ;))

For the record, after the driver and 3-wood, I think the "average" of all other clubs really means "whatever distance you'd be away from the hole on flat ground and without wind where you would pull that club."  Or "average distance on only well struck full swings."

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Technically, your "official" average would be N/A.  For your average to actually be zero, you have to have one that counts.  I guess that would have to be a whiff too. ;)

Yeah, I was wondering this too.  The criteria for TST average club distance threads is pretty loose and up to whatever your interpretation is.  There are certainly no "rules" on how to calculate it.  (Except the universally understood rule of taking whatever you think you realistically average for the driver and multiplying it be a factor of at least 1.33 ;))

For the record, after the driver and 3-wood, I think the "average" of all other clubs really means "whatever distance you'd be away from the hole on flat ground and without wind where you would pull that club."  Or "average distance on only well struck full swings."

There's average for driver and "normal" for iron/approach shots. It seems strange that you can hit an iron 5 times and they are all usually within 5 ish yards of each other if struck well, but a driver can be 10+ yds difference if struck well.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

There's average for driver and "normal" for iron/approach shots. It seems strange that you can hit an iron 5 times and they are all usually within 5 ish yards of each other if struck well, but a driver can be 10+ yds difference if struck well.

It's all based on what your carry is. If my driver is well struck and I hit it straight (no slice/face or hook/draw), I can expect it to carry about 275 on the nose. But it's so rare that I hit it straight unless I attempt my straight-pull drive. The rest is a variation based on the slope of the fairway as well as the firmess...etc.,

With my typically fade/slice, I can expect a carry closer to 240-250, and the ball typically ends up within 5 feet of the ball mark.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

There's average for driver and "normal" for iron/approach shots. It seems strange that you can hit an iron 5 times and they are all usually within 5 ish yards of each other if struck well, but a driver can be 10+ yds difference if struck well.

Because your irons typically land and stop (especially if hitting into the green), whereas a driver/3w is most often hit into a fairway where it rolls out significantly.  Some fairways are firmer than others, some have different slopes depending on where you hit them.  Driver contact location and your swing will alter the launch angle and spin of the ball from swing to swing.  Add all of that up, and the driver will not only carry different, but also roll out differently each time.  Of course, this all ignores the fact that a lot of us don't take controlled swings all the time.  Sometimes when we see a wider fairway or a par 5, we try and kill the ball.

For those reasons, measuring carry for your driver swing will usually be more reliable and exhibit relatively less variation between swings than measuring carry+roll.

[vmsea]

It's not hard to believe really..  a 20 handicap could mean 300 off the tee, and bogey golf from 100 yards in.. bogey golf from 100 yards in isn't that hard to believe is it?

bad chipping, bunker wasting 2 shots, poor putting, etc

[RandallT]

Originally Posted by vmsea

It's not hard to believe really..  a 20 handicap could mean 300 off the tee, and bogey golf from 100 yards in.. bogey golf from 100 yards in isn't that hard to believe is it?

bad chipping, bunker wasting 2 shots, poor putting, etc

Possible, I suppose. I've been playing a year and a half fairly regularly, about 35 rounds at local muni's since May 2012 in the Northern VA area. Not once have I seen a guy who hits 300 yard drives consistently. Of the guys I see over 270 regularly and who are in the fairway (or not far from it), they are all single digits handicappers. I've yet to see a guy who crushes straight drives and blows it on the short game. That's just my humble observation from seeing maybe 75-100 people in my random groups I join. I see all types (retirees, mid-life, young guns), but not a one matched that profile. Again, possible, but I haven't seen yet myself.

[Lihu]

Originally Posted by RandallT

Possible, I suppose. I've been playing a year and a half fairly regularly, about 35 rounds at local muni's since May 2012 in the Northern VA area. Not once have I seen a guy who hits 300 yard drives consistently. Of the guys I see over 270 regularly and who are in the fairway (or not far from it), they are all single digits handicappers. I've yet to see a guy who crushes straight drives and blows it on the short game. That's just my humble observation from seeing maybe 75-100 people in my random groups I join. I see all types (retirees, mid-life, young guns), but not a one matched that profile. Again, possible, but I haven't seen yet myself.

I have lived in North Potomac (MD/VA border), and I agree that there are very few golfers there who are that athletic.

Here, in So. Cal. (I am sure the same holds for Florida) the golfing scene is somewhat different. Any aspiring golfer can play pretty much every day. There are many athletic people here, and they are more health conscious.

Thus you can combine strong flexible bodies, all year driving range use, you could get long accurate drivers who hold a high handicap.

Unfortunate, that the So. Cal. lifestyle is somewhat fast paced, and many people don't get on the course as much to lower their handicaps. Theoretically, we can play 18 holes every evening, but who has time for that?

Driving on the freeways (what a misnomer) for an hour, then possibly hit the driving range for an hour (possibly on the cell phone)?...then off to whatever other activities are planned for the rest of the evening...

Yes, the formula is clear to me.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by Lihu

I have lived in North Potomac (MD/VA border), and I agree that there are very few golfers there who are that athletic.

Here, in So. Cal. (I am sure the same holds for Florida) the golfing scene is somewhat different. Any aspiring golfer can play pretty much every day. There are many athletic people here, and they are more health conscious.

Thus you can combine strong flexible bodies, all year driving range use, you could get long accurate drivers who hold a high handicap.

Unfortunate, that the So. Cal. lifestyle is somewhat fast paced, and many people don't get on the course as much to lower their handicaps. Theoretically, we can play 18 holes every evening, but who has time for that?

Driving on the freeways (what a misnomer) for an hour, then possibly hit the driving range for an hour (possibly on the cell phone)?...then off to whatever other activities are planned for the rest of the evening...

Yes, the formula is clear to me.

I don't buy into being a good athlete translates to being adept at hitting the ball far and that living in an area with a high population of fit people produces long hitting anomalies. I live in CO and we have been at the top of list as the fittest state almost every year for at least a decade. I see a lot of fit young men here that can't hit a golf ball straight and far to save their lives. The reason is having good technique is the biggest factor, or in their case it's the lack of technique that hinders them. The driver is the longest, fastest club with the least amount of loft and with that comes the smallest margin of error. It demands that you swing with a particular set of fundamentals or consistency suffers. That's why we see all the guys swinging for the fences hitting big weak slices. The guy grunting and sharting all over the course is usually not the guy with an Adam Scott like swing. If they hit one long here and there it's happenstance.

[Lihu]

I don't buy into being a good athlete translates to being adept at hitting the ball far and that living in an area with a high population of fit people produces long hitting anomalies. I live in CO and we have been at the top of list as the fittest state almost every year for at least a decade. I see a lot of fit young men here that can't hit a golf ball straight and far to save their lives. The reason is having good technique is the biggest factor, or in their case it's the lack of technique that hinders them. The driver is the longest, fastest club with the least amount of loft and with that comes the smallest margin of error. It demands that you swing with a particular set of fundamentals or consistency suffers. That's why we see all the guys swinging for the fences hitting big weak slices. The guy grunting and sharting all over the course is usually not the guy with an Adam Scott like swing. If they hit one long here and there it's happenstance.

How mant scratch players do you have on your course? I am eating lunch at Brookside with hundreds of them playing around me. Some kind of monthly Pepsi tournament. I also hit next to two people, I don't know, who are 20hc and they were hitting the middle of the fence 260 yards away. That's also an anomality, but it happens a lot.

[muttbag]

I played in a scramble with one of our golf pro's from the clubhouse last night.  Their is a major, major difference in watching a long-ball hitter crush every shot when he has a single-digit handicap as opposed to a long hitter who sprays it all over the course.  The kid put a ball on the green pin high on a 163-yard (from the tips) par 3 with an 8 iron.  He's 23 years old and hits blades.  Truly one of the longest and most accurate hitters I have ever played with.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by muttbag

I played in a scramble with one of our golf pro's from the clubhouse last night.  Their is a major, major difference in watching a long-ball hitter crush every shot when he has a single-digit handicap as opposed to a long hitter who sprays it all over the course.  The kid put a ball on the green pin high on a 163-yard (from the tips) par 3 with an 8 iron.  He's 23 years old and hits blades.  Truly one of the longest and most accurate hitters I have ever played with.

163 yd 8 iron is long?

[muttbag]

Maybe I'm just easily impressed.  I have to hit a 6 or best case scenario, a 7i to get there.  I don't consider myself a long hitter at all, probably average, I average 140 and max out around 145 with my 8i.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by muttbag

Maybe I'm just easily impressed.  I have to hit a 6 or best case scenario, a 7i to get there.  I don't consider myself a long hitter at all, probably average, I average 140 and max out around 145 with my 8i.

Playing with blades well in and of itself is impressive really, but the distance he struck it isn't all that impressive. I'd give up the extra distance I hit that club if I hit accurately all the time.