20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Nobody argues this hard without evidence to support his contention unless there is an ulterior motive - makes no difference at all what Tiger or Bubba do, this isn't about them..  Sounds to me like res0n0xg is just jealous.  Otherwise there is no good reason for him to be so passionate about someone else's claims.  Why do some people just have to be jerks about this?  What is it to you if he does or doesn't perform as claimed?

I hit a few 300+ yard drives after I was in my 60's.   I was hitting up to 280 back in 1990 with a 1986 era, 43" steel shafted TaylorMade driver and Titleist Tour balata ball.  No not AVERAGING 280, up to that.  Want to refute that too?  Just because you can't do it, that doesn't make it impossible.

No, you're a liar. You should be famous.

[boomerboy]

Well , I'm done trying to defend it. You want to call me a liar or other names, I'm cool with that. I'd rather talk golf than debate something that no one can prove without coming to the course with me. I was a little annoyed because I don't like being called a liar, because I've never been one (something I take pride in) but I'm done with arguing against someone who wants to name call. You are welcome to believe it's impossible, but either way, I appreciate everyone else being generally nice about things anyway. Hopefully I can find another post and get on to talking golf.

[cipher]

Originally Posted by boomerboy

Well , I'm done trying to defend it. You want to call me a liar or other names, I'm cool with that. I'd rather talk golf than debate something that no one can prove without coming to the course with me. I was a little annoyed because I don't like being called a liar, because I've never been one (something I take pride in) but I'm done with arguing against someone who wants to name call. You are welcome to believe it's impossible, but either way, I appreciate everyone else being generally nice about things anyway. Hopefully I can find another post and get on to talking golf.

Well said.  Hope you stick around.  Just a little friendly advice is to stay away from talking about things like this at first.  People think you might be trolling or bragging or whatever and it does not go over well with some members.  It is a great site and there is a lot to learn.  It can help your game a ton.  Best of luck to you and hope you have better experiences down the line.

[boomerboy]

Well said.  Hope you stick around.  Just a little friendly advice is to stay away from talking about things like this at first.  People think you might be trolling or bragging or whatever and it does not go over well with some members.  It is a great site and there is a lot to learn.  It can help your game a ton.  Best of luck to you and hope you have better experiences down the line.

Thank you, I appreciate the advice, I'm hoping to learn a lot from people who know more than me! :)

[RayG]

Thank you, I appreciate the advice, I'm hoping to learn a lot from people who know more than me! :)

Well, there's your problem... Just because they've been playing LONGER doesn't mean they KNOW sh!t.... just work on your own game and in a few months you'll be complaining about "you" as well. :-D

[bplewis24]

My random thoughts:

1) I think too much is made of Tiger and other pros "not swinging 100%."  From what I see, they swing as hard and as fast as they can while still maintaining proper mechanics the vast majority of the time they pull their drivers.  Maybe that's only 95%, or some other arbitrary number I'm pulling out of my a**, but I don't think they are leaving 30-50 yards on the tee box with each swing.  If they were going to do that, they would simply hit another club.  When I see those guys pull their drivers, I see them going for the big distance.  Now, maybe they could forget about proper mechanics and simply try and swing as fast and as hard as humanly possible, and that's the 100% you guys speak of, but there's no guarantee their average would increase from that.  It could just as easily decrease.  Mechanics are important to maximizing distance.

2) I don't think Bubba could average 350 if he wanted to.  Maybe 315?  But adding another 47 yards is something I believe he would take advantage of if he--or any other pro--had that ability.

3) Long drive competitor distances aren't comparable.  They aren't operating under the same conditions that us and/or the pros do.  Most of their equipment is illegal.  Sometimes I've seen them hit from elevated tee boxes.  And I'm not sure, but do they even hit onto grass, or is it artificial turf?

4) I don't see how we can definitively call a 10-capper a liar for saying he can bomb some drives or has a high average.  It's possible either way.  I'll admit I haven't paid close attention to the finer details of his claim, but I guess it's simply not that important to me.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

My random thoughts:

1) I think too much is made of Tiger and other pros "not swinging 100%."  From what I see, they swing as hard and as fast as they can while still maintaining proper mechanics the vast majority of the time they pull their drivers.  Maybe that's only 95%, or some other arbitrary number I'm pulling out of my a**, but I don't think they are leaving 30-50 yards on the tee box with each swing.  If they were going to do that, they would simply hit another club.  When I see those guys pull their drivers, I see them going for the big distance.  Now, maybe they could forget about proper mechanics and simply try and swing as fast and as hard as humanly possible, and that's the 100% you guys speak of, but there's no guarantee their average would increase from that.  It could just as easily decrease.  Mechanics are important to maximizing distance.

If you think that's Tiger swinging 100%, I don't know what else to tell you.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

If you think that's Tiger swinging 100%, I don't know what else to tell you.

Did you read what I wrote?  Why would you make a statement like that, when I never, ever said that, and clearly stated otherwise (i.e., 95%)?

Anyway, first of all, that one driver swing you posted is just that: one swing.  What do you guesstimate that is in terms of percentage?  95?  60?  80?  There are other times when his swing isn't nearly as controlled, and it happens often.  I would say at least a few times a round (if he pulls the driver more than a handful of times, which happens occasionally).  Second, the 2nd video appears to be a 3 wood.

Lastly, here is a swing from Doral when the hole was playing 330 yards and he drove the green:

He is clearly going after that one with just about everything he has (if you disagree with that, then we simply don't see eye-to-eye), and it goes 330.  Not 350.  Not 400.  When these guys hit it 350 it's typically due to circumstances and environment (altitude, air/wind conditions and fairway conditions) that either allow them to carry it further or allow for a lot of roll.

I still don't believe these guys leave 40 yards in their bag on any type of regular basis.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Did you read what I wrote?  Why would you make a statement like that, when I never, ever said that, and clearly stated otherwise (i.e., 95%)?

" I think too much is made of Tiger and other pros "not swinging 100%."  From what I see, they swing as hard and as fast as they can while still maintaining proper mechanics the vast majority of the time they pull their drivers."

That ^ was all. I'm just debating with you on what "as hard and as fast as they can" is. I can't see the video unfortunately but I think I know which swing it is, and it's still not him going full bore.

As you said, let's say the swing you posted is 95% distance...that went 330. So that means that 100% would go right about 350 yards, right? 347.37 to be exact if we're just basing it off of percentages.

P.S. I tried to edit my post to say "If you think that's Tiger swinging at 95%..." but it wouldn't let me.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

That ^ was all. I'm just debating with you on what "as hard and as fast as they can" is.

"...while maintaining proper mechanics."  For example--and for illustration--in the Doral swing, he loses his balance on the follow through which is not only an indication that he was swinging 100%, but that he lost a bit of those proper mechanics in the process.

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

I can't see the video unfortunately but I think I know which swing it is, and it's still not him going full bore.

As you said, let's say the swing you posted is 95% distance...that went 330. So that means that 100% would go right about 350 yards, right? 347.37 to be exact

If you can't see the video I don't know how you can make that claim.  I'd be interested in others chiming in on what percentage they think Tiger is swinging in that video.  I would strongly disagree with anything less than 99%.  I don't believe he left any distance on the tee box, at all.  So, no, it wouldn't go about 347 in my opinion.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

"...while maintaining proper mechanics."  For example--and for illustration--in the Doral swing, he loses his balance on the follow through which is not only an indication that he was swinging 100%, but that he lost a bit of those proper mechanics in the process.

If you can't see the video I don't know how you can make that claim.  I'd be interested in others chiming in on what percentage they think Tiger is swinging in that video.  I would strongly disagree with anything less than 99%.  I don't believe he left any distance on the tee box, at all.  So, no, it wouldn't go about 347 in my opinion.

That's where I think we disagree. I think they can swing 100% and not lose their mechanics, it's the timing issues that throw it off. When you're swinging THAT fast, the tiniest degree of error will absolutely kill you.

Was finally able to watch the vid, I can see it on youtube, but not the embedded version for some reason. He loses his balance, but I still don't think that's as hard as he can swing. I mean, look at both shots too, the hole plays 330, and he actually hits it further than the hole is playing, so I'd say that drive is closer to 340.

[Dave2512]

Doesn't really matter. An amateur can't do it without shitting their pants and obnoxiously flailing away . Even then not worth the effort considering the vast majority of the attempts end up as big, weak slices.

[boomerboy]

To bring up a little bit different point, and another thought in relation to control and improving our games, wouldn't you all say that pro's typically hit the ball higher? I always heard (through the grapevine and ESPN, so consider the source) that PGA tour vets hated playing Oak Tree or Southern Hills here because they hit the ball so darn high and the wind was so bad. If they are hitting with proper mechanics to really stick the ball where they want it, is it possible for them to swing hard, hit a drive 295-300 (where tiger and phil average on the tour), and sky it maybe 30 foot higher than the average golfer? That would mean they wouldn't change their club speed but gain control while losing a little bit of distance, right?

One of the things that has always interested me was the amount of loft I see on some clubs with these guys. It is why their approach shots are so incredible. Tiger hits a 9i 142 (according to the golf channel). I hit my 9i about 135-140. But good lord, when he hits the ball, it tickles God's toes the way he hits it. If I hit mine like that, those times when I really feel like I hit a "pretty" shot, it always seems to drop 120-125. So, what do you guys think? Loft have a lot to do with it? And does it have more to do with it on irons than drives, or about the same?

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by boomerboy

To bring up a little bit different point, and another thought in relation to control and improving our games, wouldn't you all say that pro's typically hit the ball higher? I always heard (through the grapevine and ESPN, so consider the source) that PGA tour vets hated playing Oak Tree or Southern Hills here because they hit the ball so darn high and the wind was so bad. If they are hitting with proper mechanics to really stick the ball where they want it, is it possible for them to swing hard, hit a drive 295-300 (where tiger and phil average on the tour), and sky it maybe 30 foot higher than the average golfer? That would mean they wouldn't change their club speed but gain control while losing a little bit of distance, right?

One of the things that has always interested me was the amount of loft I see on some clubs with these guys. It is why their approach shots are so incredible. Tiger hits a 9i 142 (according to the golf channel). I hit my 9i about 135-140. But good lord, when he hits the ball, it tickles God's toes the way he hits it. If I hit mine like that, those times when I really feel like I hit a "pretty" shot, it always seems to drop 120-125. So, what do you guys think? Loft have a lot to do with it? And does it have more to do with it on irons than drives, or about the same?

I'm not sure about the loft, but I get a ton of loft recently on my irons, and they're still flying my normal distances. Typically if I hit a green, the ball doesn't end up more than 10 feet from the ball mark, so it's almost all carry.

I'm no expert, but perhaps the reason your high shots are short, and theirs aren't, is that you could be adding loft to your clubs, while they're compressing the ball which makes it launch up in the air.

[res0n0xg]

I was being brash and you probably don't think you're lying but I'll state both slice and boomer are simply incorrect.... You were getting to the point though, the tour pro's swing as hard as they can without losing their proper swing... IE getting too steep, flat, avoiding blocks, pulls, etc. it gets to a point where if you went crazy 100% overswing you'll end up losing distance over a smooth 90-95% swing as you'll create too much side spin or other bad things, lowering your smash factor thus lowering distance, not to mention if you're in the fairway or not...

Oh, and FYI I am not a short hitter. I played today and had two drives out of six right at 300 yards, and averaged about 270-275 I would guess off the tee.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by res0n0xg

slice and boomer are simply incorrect

Sure. Here's Bubba ripping one btw. Elevated tee? Sure, so it would have only been 350 on a level one. Not to mention he puts so much right to left movement on the ball, that he's actually reducing distance.

Is that his average drive? No. Would it be close to his average driving distance if he went for that swing every time? Yeah, probably pretty close.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Sure. Here's Bubba ripping one btw. Elevated tee? Sure, so it would have only been 350 on a level one. Not to mention he puts so much right to left movement on the ball, that he's actually reducing distance.

Is that his average drive? No. Would it be close to his average driving distance if he went for that swing every time? Yeah, probably pretty close.

That's not that much of an elevated tee, however, I guess it is up a little bit.  It's also likely downwind, seeing as how he's hitting directly away from the ocean. ;)

Also consider that average driving distance on the PGA tour is calculated by averaging two holes per round going in opposite directions, so if this was downwind, then we'd also have to average it with his previous tee shot (or the first hole) to get his number for that day.  Also consider that while I'm sure they try and choose two holes where most players are likely to hit driver, there is no guarantee that they will.  This will also bring everybody's averages down some from what they could be.

I would tend to agree with Brandon's take.  They are possibly holding back a little bit with most swings (90%, maybe 95%) to stay better in control, but they're not losing 30-50 yards in doing so.

This swing of Bubba's though, I would definitely label as 100% (maybe even 101 ;))

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

They are possibly holding back a little bit with most swings (90%, maybe 95%) to stay better in control, but they're not losing 30-50 yards in doing so.

This swing of Bubba's though, I would definitely label as 100% (maybe even 101 ;))

I would say 5-10% could be the difference in 30 yards. I mean, that's all of what, 10 mph swing speed difference?

And I agree, that's why I posted that one specifically. The one drive I found of Bubba that was full bore all out trying to crush it. And it went over 360 yards.