What Does the Average Weekend Golfer Shoot?

[tuffluck]

Originally Posted by joekelly

Where i play, every hole has a forward 'drop zone' coz the 'rough' is the jungle. Off the fairway the chance of finding your ball about 3%. So to save time the management has obligated everyone to play the drop zone. We use the drop zone and add one stroke. Breaking 100 here is no easy task and the vast majority of golfers do not.

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

There is absolutely no rule in any USGA rule book that allows you to take this action according to the rules.

And no, it's not the exact same thing. If your ball is lost, you must take a 1 stroke penalty and re-hit from the point your last shot was taken.

There is absolutely NO rule that tells you to take a 2 stroke penalty and drop a ball close to where you think your LOST ball is. That's a ruling you made up.

Not having the luxury of having to return to the tee is the exact reason the "Provisional Ball" rule even exists. It takes an extra 15 seconds to hit a provisional.

I'm not criticizing your choice to play by any modified rules you may want to choose to play with. But you're posting in a forum about other players not knowing the correct rules (taking a 2 stroke penalty on a LOST ball) when you indeed seem to be lacking the correct knowledge of the rules. There is no such thing as a 2 stroke penalty on a ball LOST from the tee. It's 1 stroke and distance.

there should be a muni 2-stroke rule for losing a tee shot, because all the public courses i play on would severely frown on someone driving back to a tee box to take another shot.  the reality is that provided you hit a good second drive (after you lost your first one), you would be hitting 4 in the middle of the fairway; likewise if you drop in the area where your first one went out, you are hitting 4 from probably a similar distance after your 2 stroke penalty.  it's pretty much the only rule i can assess on a public course, unless of course i'm certain there is a lost ball and tee up again before leaving the tee box.  unless you only drive the ball 6 feet, i don't see how this process of driving back to the tee could take only 15 seconds.

[JasonK88S]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

there should be a muni 2-stroke rule for losing a tee shot, because all the public courses i play on would severely frown on someone driving back to a tee box to take another shot.  the reality is that provided you hit a good second drive (after you lost your first one), you would be hitting 4 in the middle of the fairway; likewise if you drop in the area where your first one went out, you are hitting 4 from probably a similar distance after your 2 stroke penalty.  it's pretty much the only rule i can assess on a public course, unless of course i'm certain there is a lost ball and tee up again before leaving the tee box.  unless you only drive the ball 6 feet, i don't see how this process of driving back to the tee could take only 15 seconds.

a "provisional" ball eliminates you having to drive back to the tee. Say I hit my ball #1 and I think that there is a chance the ball is lost. I will hit a "provisional" just in case so now I have another ball to play instead of driving back to the tee. If I can not find ball #1, then ball #2 will be played and then the correct amount of strokes will be added.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

there should be a muni 2-stroke rule for losing a tee shot, because all the public courses i play on would severely frown on someone driving back to a tee box to take another shot.

Hit a provisional.

If you've lost your ball you cannot reasonably know where to drop.

[David in FL]

Hit a provisional. If you've lost your ball you cannot reasonably know where to drop.

I know it couldn't possibly happen to anyone here, but I've heard an ugly rumor that it's at least possible to jack the 2d ball out as well...... :~(

[gwlee7]

It only takes 15 more seconds to hit the provisional provisional. :)

[tuffluck]

i still like my rule better...plenty of times i hit a bad drive right after another bad drive.  i'd rather call a 2 stroker on myself than take 4, 6, 8, etc. ;)

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

i still like my rule better...plenty of times i hit a bad drive right after another bad drive.  i'd rather call a 2 stroker on myself than take 4, 6, 8, etc. ;)

Yeah, but "your" rule isn't a real rule. It's just something you made up. You might as well take free drops from lateral hazards, ground your club in the bunker and call every putt inside of 15 feet a gimme. You can't legally "call a 2 stroker on yourself". It's not even a rule.

[JasonK88S]

Originally Posted by tuffluck

i still like my rule better...plenty of times i hit a bad drive right after another bad drive.  i'd rather call a 2 stroker on myself than take 4, 6, 8, etc. ;)

Thats fine if thats how you want to play it. It is your score card after all. We're just letting you know the "official" way to handle that problem.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Yeah, but "your" rule isn't a real rule. It's just something you made up. You might as well take free drops from lateral hazards, ground your club in the bunker and call every putt inside of 15 feet a gimme.

You can't legally "call a 2 stroker on yourself". It's not even a rule.

Not to mention his handicap is bunk due to the made up rule. More than once I've whacked a provisional OB on the way to a meltdown.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

Not to mention his handicap is bunk due to the made up rule. More than once I've whacked a provisional OB on the way to a meltdown.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that.  You can hit 50 balls OB in a row if you want, but for handicap purposes you're walking out of there with a 7 once you hit that second one OB, and even if you stripe the second drive, you're more than likely ending up with a 7 (perhaps a 6) still.

If you were to play by his made up rule, you're hitting 4 from the rough so chances are also pretty good you're ending up at 7.

Certainly, it's illegal and if he's playing in a competition, he is all screwed up, but based on the info, I wouldn't say that his handicap is bunk.

[Dave2512]

Anybody not abiding by the ROG has a vanity cap. The unknown makes it impossible to validate.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

Anybody not abiding by the ROG has a vanity cap. The unknown makes it impossible to validate.

My dad doesn't even finish holes once he's reached his ESC # for the hole.  That is certainly not the Rules of Golf, but we're not in competition, so I don't care.  And his handicap won't change because, like I said, he's already reached his ESC.  With tuffluck, chances are, he's going to be at his ESC on that hole anyway, since he's already lying 3 and still in the rough.

I'm not saying you are wrong ... technically the validity of his handicap is questionable, sure.  I'm simply saying that I doubt it would be any different if he was playing by the rules (assuming the "drop and 2 strokes" for an OB is the only rule he's making up)

And, since we're getting technical, let me ask this:  How many people honestly will drive back and re-hit a shot after a lost ball?  I'm not talking about something that might be OB or is hit near forest or junk that you know might eat a ball where you knew to hit a provisional, but a true lost ball.  Like if it got picked up by another group by mistake and you didn't see them, or it fell into a gopher hole and disappeared, or just went into some heavy rough.  When you're not playing in a tournament, how many of you actually will drive back to the tee and re-hit?  I'm guessing somewhere close to zero.  (Don't lie ... I have never once IN MY LIFE been on a tee and had to wait while a guy in front of me ran back to hit another tee shot)

So, if we're gonna be anal about the ROG towards tuffluck in this aspect, aren't we all vanity-cappers?

[David in FL]

i still like my rule better...plenty of times i hit a bad drive right after another bad drive.  i'd rather call a 2 stroker on myself than take 4, 6, 8, etc. ;)

I'd like a 5 inch cup better too, but it's not.......

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

My dad doesn't even finish holes once he's reached his ESC # for the hole.

To each his own, but this seems insanely odd to me? Is your dad paying golf ONLY to submit an arbitrary number to the USGA? Why would you stop playing a hole just bc you are a couple strokes over par? Does he not keep an actual score? Compete against himself or other playing partners? Try to best his previous rounds? The ESC number is not the score for a hole. I just don't understand quitting on a hole and scoring yourself some fake score without finishing the hole. Seems crazy to me.

[Golfingdad]

Let's see...

Quote:

To each his own, but this seems insanely odd to me?

Yup, me too.

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Is your dad paying golf ONLY to submit an arbitrary number to the USGA?

Yes.  He never plays in tournaments, just for recreation.

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Why would you stop playing a hole just bc you are a couple strokes over par?

He has unrealistic expectations everytime out, and also a temper.  By the time he's at 8, he's seething.

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Does he not keep an actual score?

Expect for an "8" here and there, yes.

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Compete against himself or other playing partners?

Nope.

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

Try to best his previous rounds?

He's an enigma to me.  Is obsessed with the game, TGC is on 24/7 at my parents house, when they visit we usually go out and play, yet he never practices or really puts forth any effort to improve.  So the answer to this one is yes and no, I guess.

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

The ESC number is not the score for a hole. I just don't understand quitting on a hole and scoring yourself some fake score without finishing the hole. Seems crazy to me.

I agree.  Don't understand why he does what he does.

All of that said ... the whole point I was making was that regardless of him not finishing the hole - which is very much against the ROG - his score for handicap purposes is not wrong because of those "8's."  He can play out all of those holes to 10's, 11's and 38's all the live long day, and his handicap is not going anywhere.

[tuffluck]

My dad doesn't even finish holes once he's reached his ESC # for the hole.  That is certainly not the Rules of Golf, but we're not in competition, so I don't care.  And his handicap won't change because, like I said, he's already reached his ESC.  With tuffluck, chances are, he's going to be at his ESC on that hole anyway, since he's already lying 3 and still in the rough. I'm not saying you are wrong ... technically the [U]validity[/U] of his handicap is questionable, sure.  I'm simply saying that I doubt it would be any different if he was playing by the rules (assuming the "drop and 2 strokes" for an OB is the only rule he's making up) And, since we're getting technical, let me ask this:  How many people honestly will drive back and re-hit a shot after a lost ball?  I'm not talking about something that might be OB or is hit near forest or junk that you know might eat a ball where you knew to hit a provisional, but a true lost ball.  Like if it got picked up by another group by mistake and you didn't see them, or it fell into a gopher hole and disappeared, or just went into some heavy rough.  When you're not playing in a tournament, how many of you actually will drive back to the tee and re-hit?  I'm guessing somewhere close to zero.  (Don't lie ... I have never once IN MY LIFE been on a tee and had to wait while a guy in front of me ran back to hit another tee shot) So, if we're gonna be anal about the ROG towards tuffluck in this aspect, aren't we all vanity-cappers?

Exactly. There are some tough cookies in this post. The 2 stroke penalty is a pretty accurate resolution. Hell I can't imagine what some of you guys would have done if I said I didn't take any penalty strokes...

[cooke119]

Judging by the golfers I've been teamed with, when I go to the course by myself, it has got to be well over 100 if they play by the rules. I constantly see people improving their lie, moving the ball from behind a tree versus chipping out and taking their medicine, grounding the club in sand traps, etc. etc., we've all seen it. Plus I don't think they know how to count. In the league I play in you have to play by the rules or you are called on it. Most of the scores I see are up around 100 and these are guys & gals  who play pretty often.

[CR McDivot]

On the course I play most (muni 69.6/119 from the white) I would guess weekenders hit 110 or more. The league players are likely the only ones tracking a HCP, and they range from scratch to 20 or 25.

My partners and I are recreational golfers and mostly play Stableford where all rules are in effect, except that since double bogey scores zero one may pick up at that point in the hole. Speeds up play in consideration of the following group, and eliminates blowup holes.

To require strict stroke play for lesser skilled weekend or recreational golfers is unproductive, frustrates both the hackers and those playing behind. There are alternatives that violate neither the spirit nor the rules.