What Does the Average Weekend Golfer Shoot?

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by Lihu

Sometimes, it only takes one good shot to make most peoples' round worth their money. It's all in the thrill factor.

Yeah, there's a lot more fun in saying "did you see that shot I made on X, it was crazy" as opposed to the smarter play of "remember that lay up I played and how I got bogey". I need to make the mindset shift of making cool shots to making smart shots.

[kw purp]

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Yeah, there's a lot more fun in saying "did you see that shot I made on X, it was crazy" as opposed to the smarter play of "remember that lay up I played and how I got bogey". I need to make the mindset shift of making cool shots to making smart shots.

Your a 22 handicap. Your "did you see that shot I made on X" is for bogey

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by kw purp

Your a 22 handicap. Your "did you see that shot I made on X" is for bogey

Rofl, good try generalizing my abilities based on my handicap. As I've said already, my handicap is due mostly to making poor decisions when I get into trouble. My "did you see that " shots are typically shots onto the green from behind trees that help me save par, not lay ups that save bogey.

[mdl]

Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey

I see where tuffluck is coming from.  Since so many folks I see want to treat a lost ball like a lateral - I can bargain to his 2-stroke hitting from the rough not wanting to ride back shouldve hit a provisional stance.  It isn't 100% right - but it is right-er than what I see every weekend. It feels like a step in the right direction.  It really gets under my skin when they just want to take a stroke and drop where they thought it went out.

To flintcreek - that is interesting.  Since getting handicaps, my golfing buddies and I now talk in differentials mostly.  It is just so much more specific than a total score.

I see a lot of weekend golfers because I play with a random group almost every weekend - and I totally pay attention to their skill level and game. I find it fascinating.  A form of people-watching I guess.  Very few carry a handicap - but some will tell you what theirs is anyway.  Most are not breaking 100 - even though they play from the blues.  But if you look at the card at the end of the round - high 80's / low 90's.  There is something about golf that doesn't let humans be honest about scores.  Take the mulligan for instance.  Many will consider it a basic tenant of the game and steeped in tradition - and it isn't even in the rules!

I've often thought that the idea of "par" might be responsible.  If par is what is expected - and par is 72, how in the world can I accept 114?  It isn't even close. I must suck uncontrollably.  Therefore I must use all of the tools at my disposal (foot wedge, fluffed lie, OB as lateral, mulligans, gimmies, etc) in order to break 95.

And once one guy breaks 95, another is less accepting of his 105 - and a domino effect ensues.  We should all be much more understanding of a 105.  For weekend warriors, it just isn't that bad.  We just think of it as such.

Maybe you're exaggerating for effect.  But when I play it's almost always with at least 2 randoms.  I don't think I've ever seen someone shoot a 114 and claim an 89.  Every so often I'll play with someone who'll use a foot wedge or two, but I very rarely see people take mulligans.  Sure people take some gimmes and maybe just ignore (score wise) a ball lost off the tee, but among the golfers who are scoring themselves better than they really played the average has to be more in the 2-6 strokes better range, not the 20-30 strokes range!

[kw purp]

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

Rofl, good try generalizing my abilities based on my handicap. As I've said already, my handicap is due mostly to making poor decisions when I get into trouble. My "did you see that " shots are typically shots onto the green from behind trees that help me save par, not lay ups that save bogey.

Just be realistic is all I am saying. I am not making generalizations about your abilities. You shoot in the mid 90's to low 100's.  Your abilities are not very high. You act as though your hitting phil-esque shots over trees to get birdies. Dont get me wrong, I am not any good either. But I dont try to fool myself into thinking I am.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by mdl

Maybe you're exaggerating for effect.  But when I play it's almost always with at least 2 randoms.  I don't think I've ever seen someone shoot a 114 and claim an 89.  Every so often I'll play with someone who'll use a foot wedge or two, but I very rarely see people take mulligans.  Sure people take some gimmes and maybe just ignore (score wise) a ball lost off the tee, but among the golfers who are scoring themselves better than they really played the average has to be more in the 2-6 strokes better range, not the 20-30 strokes range!

Yeah, I agree with this.  There are certainly guys out there who fluff the ball, etc, etc ... but I see those guys less often than I see guys who play it down.  (I don't mean "play it down" in the sense that they play 100% rules by the book, just that the "winter rules" crowd is not as common as people make it out to be)  Also, I have no idea what the difference is between what they shoot and what they claim because I don't keep score for strangers.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by mdl

Maybe you're exaggerating for effect.  But when I play it's almost always with at least 2 randoms.  I don't think I've ever seen someone shoot a 114 and claim an 89.  Every so often I'll play with someone who'll use a foot wedge or two, but I very rarely see people take mulligans.  Sure people take some gimmes and maybe just ignore (score wise) a ball lost off the tee, but among the golfers who are scoring themselves better than they really played the average has to be more in the 2-6 strokes better range, not the 20-30 strokes range!

Last weekend I played with Saevel25 and played with an older couple. They were very nice and the gentleman approached as as they were very nice *definitely the truth* and that they "knew the rules" which may or may not be the case however they did not play by them. They used mulligan's and foot wedges as well as fluffing their lie. I didn't mind, because we weren't competing and it helped them have fun, however his score wasn't true to what he wrote down which was higher than mine on just about every hole which put him easily in the 100's instead of the mid-low 90's he wrote down.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by mdl

Maybe you're exaggerating for effect.  But when I play it's almost always with at least 2 randoms.  I don't think I've ever seen someone shoot a 114 and claim an 89.  Every so often I'll play with someone who'll use a foot wedge or two, but I very rarely see people take mulligans.  Sure people take some gimmes and maybe just ignore (score wise) a ball lost off the tee, but among the golfers who are scoring themselves better than they really played the average has to be more in the 2-6 strokes better range, not the 20-30 strokes range!

I agree, certainly don't see it as much as it comes up here. If anything it's the bozo trying to play by the rules hitting balls all over the course that drives me nuts. Those are the folks that slow it down to a crawl looking for balls and making a mess of things instead of just throwing one down and moving on. I get it when someone is playing half decent golf. But the guy on his way to 115 with 15 penalty strokes and 9 three putts or worse should just play whatever variation of golf keeps things moving. If kicking it into the fairway makes them hit it better I am all for it.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by kw purp

Just be realistic is all I am saying. I am not making generalizations about your abilities. You shoot in the mid 90's to low 100's.  Your abilities are not very high. You act as though your hitting phil-esque shots over trees to get birdies. Dont get me wrong, I am not any good either. But I dont try to fool myself into thinking I am.

I shoot mid-low 90's, and I'm not fooling myself into thinking I'm hitting amazing shots like tour players. But I know that I'd be playing in the 80's if I played the smart shots instead of trying to play "cool" shots. You trying to imply that I'm barely able to made bogey when I do hit a good/great shot is very much off base.

[Dave2512]

Just as easy to blow it not taking unnecessary risks. Golf is hard. When I was playing 20+ golf it didn't come down to a few blow up holes. My game sucked, and still does, across the board. Last night I put up 3 doubles on the way to a 43 and I was playing conservatively.

[Jeremie Boop]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

Just as easy to blow it not taking unnecessary risks. Golf is hard. When I was playing 20+ golf it didn't come down to a few blow up holes. My game sucked, and still does, across the board. Last night I put up 3 doubles on the way to a 43 and I was playing conservatively.

Every blow up hole I have is due to taking those risks, not from me playing the smart shots. On a normal hole I usually have a putt at par which may turn into a double bogey with bad putting but typically ends in a bogey. I appreciate the fact that I still have plenty of work left to do to become a good golfer, I've no illusions on that.

[rkim291968]

Originally Posted by mdl

Maybe you're exaggerating for effect.  But when I play it's almost always with at least 2 randoms.  I don't think I've ever seen someone shoot a 114 and claim an 89.  Every so often I'll play with someone who'll use a foot wedge or two, but I very rarely see people take mulligans.  Sure people take some gimmes and maybe just ignore (score wise) a ball lost off the tee, but among the golfers who are scoring themselves better than they really played the average has to be more in the 2-6 strokes better range, not the 20-30 strokes range!

I agree that a simple majority I've played with fall on this category,.   There are few who claims shooting 90 but, in reality they shot 100+.   I don't think I've seen anyone who claims shooting 90 but was actually playing to 110 - 120.  And to be frank, most of 110 - 120 golfers don't know the scoring rules (or care).

[Valleygolfer]

An interesting synopsis: http://averagegolfer1.blogspot.com/2008/06/average-golfer-statistics.html

[Lihu]

20 to 30 strokes seems unlikely to lower handicappers, but many people I had played in the past couple years are 20 to 30 strokes more than they write down or "mentally retain".

Here are a few scenarios:

The OB scenario where you should take a stroke and distance ends up being taken as a stroke and drop most of the time. This improves each hole they do it on by 1 stroke. Possibly 5 to 10 times per round? Then there are bunker shots that took only 1 to 2 "real" strokes to get out of. Shots that go into the next fairway and "moved" to a safer location. Practice swings that move the ball ever so slightly to another location, those don't count. Or the 5 putt (I did this 3 months ago, but made sure it was added properly to my score in the end).

You can easily rack up 20 or more strokes per an 18 hole round if you don't hit straight most of the time. Most weekend golfers do not spend the time, nor do they care. After all it's just a game to most of them.

I happen to care, because I want to know and play by the rules when I play with my kids.

[ghalfaire]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

An interesting synopsis: http://averagegolfer1.blogspot.com/2008/06/average-golfer-statistics.html

Interesting article.  I would only caution that correlation and causality are not the same thing.  I would also say that while you can always calculate an average of some characteristic (like number of putts per round) of a group there may not be a single sample in the group that looks like (in this case plays like) the average.

[Pushy]

I guy I play with used to play with an "8 is the limit for a hole" rule.  Some perversion of ESC I guess. Came it handy for him at times, I must say, although it was rather galling on the occasions I would have to put down a 10 or worse.  As far as the thread topic, I think it is difficult to define a weekend golfer.  There are people playing on the weekends only *now* who have at some point in their lives immersed themselves in the game and grooved a good swing pretty deep in their muscle memory.  For these folks, 80s or better is certainly a possibility.  And I guess there are people with a natural knack for the game who wouldn't need a lot of work to score decently, but I don't think there are many of those.  For the people who are true weekend-only golfers and always have been, bogey is a reasonable ceiling.  That's pretty much me, and I've been in the 90s a lot and the 80s once and a while.  Shot an 82 once, but that was, alas, a freak round.  But I do go to the range a couple of times a week in the summer and I've had some lessons.  Might be tough to break 100 if you really just touch a club once a week.  A lot depends on course difficulty and length.

[Lihu]

Maybe you're exaggerating for effect.  But when I play it's almost always with at least 2 randoms.  I don't think I've ever seen someone shoot a 114 and claim an 89.  Every so often I'll play with someone who'll use a foot wedge or two, but I very rarely see people take mulligans.  Sure people take some gimmes and maybe just ignore (score wise) a ball lost off the tee, but among the golfers who are scoring themselves better than they really played the average has to be more in the 2-6 strokes better range, not the 20-30 strokes range!

I've never seen someone shoot 114 and claim 89, but I have seen someone shoot 135 and think it was closer to 110. Most people shooting 120s have no idea how many strokes they make. In general, they think their score is closer to the "average" of 105 rather than 120 or 125. If it takes them 8 strokes just to get out of a bunker, that hole might have 12 strokes on it and they might think something like 8 total. In the high handicapper level, the psychology behind why they continue to play is that they remember the good shots, like a 260 yard drive or the perfect approach shot. The 5 putts are not that important to them. I've been there, and it's only been a year or so for me. Lots of my friends still have this mentality, and it does not bother me one bit. However, this is the reality of why golf still has high tens of millions of players, and not only hundreds of thousands.

[ghalfaire]

Originally Posted by Pushy

As far as the thread topic, I think it is difficult to define a weekend golfer.

I certainly agree with this and that is what I was trying to say above.   You can always calculate an average weekend golfer's stats but finding a weekend golfer that has those stats might be very difficult.  Weekend golfers are not a very homogeneous group.