Was Steve Williams disrespectful of the flag on Saturday?

[ChappyEight]

Why can't we look at it just for what it was; a nice gesture by the tournament organizers on our country's Independence Day. I'm sure they were fully aware that the flags would be treated like any other flag at a golf tournament.

The bottom line is that they were honoring our country on its Independence Day.

Why must there always be a negative connotation to everything?

Oh, God and did you see that Stevie tied his right shoe before his left?? An incredible disrespect to left handed people in any country. He should have tied them both at the same time!

[DisturbedGolferFla]

Oh my god.

I was kind of thinking the same thing. If I were a caddy, I may have done it by accident...which I'm sure he did.

Who the hell cares?

Franco/Grndslmhttr

To some of us yes it does. I think your response's are more disrespectful then Stevie allowing the flag to touch the ground. CG, I agree. Do you know how many flagsticks these guys tend in their career?. It becomes repetitious. There was no malice intended I can guarantee you that. I am not attempting to offend anyone or start anything but to simply post that you don't care?. I don't think THAT is very American.

[kris]

I've never understood why people get so up-in-arms over a flag touching the ground.

[teamgs]

I've never understood why people get so up-in-arms over a flag touching the ground.

The flag touching the ground has been a "no no" for hundreds of years, and not just by US citizens/soldiers.

There are numerous stories of color bearers giving their lives to keep the flag from touching the ground during battle. The fcolor bearer (who was usually unarmed) would get shot, and another soldier would drop his weapon, and quickly grab the flag to ensure that it would not touch the ground. There were more than a few battles in which multiple color bearers were killed. Gary

[michaeljames92]

Well my thoughts are that if it was unintentional then no it is not really disrespectful. I have never really understood why if a flag touches the ground it should be burnt. I understand the symbolic part but to me it sounds a little silly to burn a flag just because it touched the ground. To me burning a flag is more disrespectful than letting it touch the ground.

Each to their own I guess.

[Shindig]

Well my thoughts are that if it was unintentional then no it is not really disrespectful. I have never really understood why if a flag touches the ground it should be burnt. I understand the symbolic part but to me it sounds a little silly to burn a flag just because it touched the ground. To me burning a flag is more disrespectful than letting it touch the ground.

Just to clarify: they don't mean burning it the way you might see it burnt at a demonstration in Baghdad, Tehran, Berkeley, etc. Burning a damaged flag is an acceptable way to dispose of it.

[zeg]

In my opinion, a decorative flag atop a pin is far different from a "real" flag. Furthermore, even if you don't feel that way, there's just nothing to this story. As others have pointed out, the passion that some Americans seem to feel for protecting the honor of their flag is a fairly unique cultural thing. Not sharing that passion isn't an indication of disrespect. The guy is thinking about golf, not about trying to offend people.

There are numerous stories of color bearers giving their lives to keep the flag from touching the ground during battle. The fcolor bearer (who was usually unarmed) would get shot, and another soldier would drop his weapon, and quickly grab the flag to ensure that it would not touch the ground. There were more than a few battles in which multiple color bearers were killed.

I've heard those stories too. I don't say this to be disrespectful, only to express my personal feelings, but I feel that is a waste of multiple lives. Giving your life to protect your values and your fellow countrymen is one thing; giving it to protect a symbol of those things is very different.

Personally, I think it's silly to get hung up on paying respect to a symbol of our country. I'd rather focus on paying respect to the country itself and the values that make it what it is. At the end of the day, a flag is a piece of colored cloth. It doesn't mean I value my country any less if I let it brush the ground as I put it away.

[PiustheDrGolf]

I guess Tiger's caddy did it unintentionally. Disrespectful? I doubt it. But he SHOULD be more careful. Maybe this is out of this matter but he once talked about Phil. How can he talk about other tour players. He should be very careful whatever he does. Tiger's dog is still a dog.

[kris]

The flag touching the ground has been a "no no" for hundreds of years, and not just by US citizens/soldiers.

I respect the military and know the history but I still don't understand what the big deal is. Flag etiquette passes right over my head I suppose.

[AmenCorner]

I respect the military and know the history but I still don't understand what the big deal is. Flag etiquette passes right over my head I suppose.

The big deal is that the flag represents everything that this country is. Furthermore, our forefathers felt it was of the highest importance to protect and preserve the integrity of our flag and everything that it stands for. Now, I ask you, who are we to question that?

I however do agree that it is not fair to single out Tiger's caddy. The tournament organizers in my opinion should reconsider this tradition in future years. Yes, I think the intention was honorable, but let's not kid ourselves, they are selling something whether we choose to admit it or not.

[opie]

I don't think using the flag as the flag for the pin was the brightest move knowing that pins get dropped on the ground and thrown around. I don't think Mr Williams would intentionally disrespect another countries flag (don't know the guy but I'd hope he wouldn't).

Flag etiquette is important if you're an American. It's a living symbol of your country and should be treated as such

[Bump-n-MI]

Is it really that difficult and does it require an obscene amount of work to keep the flag off the ground? Hell no.

Is it disrespectful for Steve to take his smock off before his caddying duties are complete and the tournament is over? He takes that dam thing off as soon as Tiger's ball is on the 18th green….never seen any other caddy do this. Bugs the hell out of me.

Steve Williams is a legend in his own mind.

[RemyM]

Is it disrespectful for Steve to take his smock off before his caddying duties are complete and the tournament is over? He takes that dam thing off as soon as Tiger's ball is on the 18th green….never seen any other caddy do this. Bugs the hell out of me.

He does it so he can get camera time for his sponsor, he has his own you know. My wife and I also don't feel it is proper for him to do that and I can't believe that the tour allows him to keep doing it.

[iacas]

Steve Williams is a legend in his own mind.

Guy's been on the bag for more major victories than most golfers have ever

watched . He's at least a little bit of a legend. And some other caddies take the bib off early too. They're just not talked about like Stevie. Why would it bug you? Do you have a problem identifying Tiger Woods - or think other people might? I doubt it. Or is this just another case of "I hate Stevie, so I think what he does is wrong." Or do you have an actual reason that the bib thing "bugs the hell out of" you?

My wife and I also don't feel it is proper for him to do that and I can't believe that the tour allows him to keep doing it.

He's not breaking any rules (so far as I know). I think I read someone else complaining about this awhile back and the consensus was "it's not against the rules now, and nobody's gonna make that a rule because Stevie's one of the more famous ones who does it, and Stevie carries the bag for Tiger...".

Stevie's reasonably well liked among his peers from what I understand. He's used his position as Tiger's caddie to do some things like lobby for the caddies to be able to wear shorts - and he may have done that (memory's a bit foggy right now) by wearing shorts one hot day before that was allowed, thus "breaking" that rule. Or something like that...? Again, a bit foggy there.

[ninjadriver]

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've seen posted on any internet forum this year. Hilarious!

I await with interest the calls to "raise a posse to tackle that varmint", and "lynch him".

Hot diggity, where is John Wayne when you need him?

[Bump-n-MI]

And some other caddies take the bib off early too. They're just not talked about like Stevie. Why would it bug you? Do you have a problem identifying Tiger Woods - or think other people might? I doubt it. Or is this just another case of "I hate Stevie, so I think what he does is wrong." Or do you have an actual reason that the bib thing "bugs the hell out of" you?

The tour expects the caddies to wear bibs during the competition. Competition concludes when Tiger putts out on 18…not before hand (actually it may not conclude until the player has signed his score card). Please note, this has nothing to do with Steve, it would bug me no matter who it was (although I've never seen anybody else do it). If you say you have seen this first hand fine, however, I have never seen another caddy have a problem complying with this rule. Its just a bit more pronounced with Steve because he obviously gets more airtime then any other caddy.

I have a problem with anybody that thinks they are above the rules. Nobody is bigger then the game.

[goblue107501]

I usually stay away from these discussions, but here is my 0.02.

I thought is was a nice gesture that on Independence Day, in Washington D.C., that they used American flags on the pins. When I was watching I just thought it was kind of neat that they did that. Never once gave it a thought about the caddies, and how they might handle them. I would bet that Steve Williams was not the only caddie who touched it to the ground. If there was a big concern about how the flags would be treated, the tournament should have just assigned a military member at each green to properly tend to the flag so that nothing disrespectful would happen to them, or simply not use them. That didn't happen, so obviously no one was that concerned about it.

Even if they notified the caddies about the flags for the day, once you get on the course, their number one job is to help thier player and the memo gets forgotten. As someone who has caddied, the one thing you try and do on the green is make the flag invisible and silent so that it doesn't disturb a player.

[songwriter]

I think it's ridiculous to place such reverence to a flag and no, he didn't do anything bad.