Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
IGNORED

Male Scratch Golfer on the LPGA Tour


Note: This thread is 1491 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

Having walked with a LPGA pro-am group, I can tell you first hand that the scratch golfer got creamed.  Here's a summary of what happened:

- The scratch golfer consistently out-drove the LPGA pro by an average of about 10 yards (sometimes more, sometimes less).

- However, (and this is big), the LPGA  pro played from the fairway FAR more often than the scratch golfer.  Even though the LPGA courses are short (in comparison), the scratch golfer didn't have nearly the type of skill to recover with a par every time a fairway was missed.  Which leads me to...

- The LPGA pro was masterful when it came to getting up and down from around the greens.  No comparison here at all.  In fact, the difference in bunker play alone was worth about 4 strokes.

- When the LPGA pro missed the green or fairway, it was not nearly as penal as it was for the scratch golfer, who typically missed by tens of yards.

- Suprisingly, the scratch golfer putted nearly as well as the LPGA pro.

- LPGA pros do this for a living and the hundreds of hours spent playing tournament golf each year is something that can't be duplicated by amateurs.

- The LPGA pro shot 67 and the scratch golfer shot 76.  It was truly eye-opening to watch.

Dale


Posted
I've had the luck to caddy in Nationwide and international events, where the courses are close to or equal to PGA conditions. I've just caddied at the National Amateur championships and what I can tell you is that an event like that is way harder then most people think. Greens are way faster, pressure is absolutely a big big factor and not getting your FIR and GIR in check means at least a bogey if not a double. My educated guess is most scratch to 4 handicappers won't break 80, and if you're not used to this kind of competition it will be really hard to break 85. I personally guess I'd have a hard time breaking 90 as my mental game isn't very good and I can totally whack a drive 20 yards off course sometimes. Mind you, I did not compete as my handicap is too high. I'd play about a 75-76 on a good day and a mid 80 on really bad days (like today: with a quadruple, triple and double bogey after nearly hitting someone in my flight that suddenly walked into my line mid-swing. That was crazy scary, couldn't shake it off :( )

  • 3 months later...
Posted

There was an article in one of the magazines that asked if a 6 handicap, or a scratch handicap, could beat the 100th ranked female player on tour. I don't believe the 6 could do so, and I say this because my index alternates between low single digits and 6 and there is a very good college gal I play with on occasion and she beats me.

Now, a true 0 index would stand a chance to beat the 100th ranked player in my view. The 100th ranked player plays to about a 74 stroke average in most years on the LPGA, and this is with their average course playing 6200 to 6500 yards. A true 0 at a course that plays 6900 yards would seem to be playing better.

I once had a discussion where I suggested to a friend that Michelle Wei would not be a top 5 player among local men in the Philadelphia area. I suggested that we could include any player that did not have any tour status at PGA, Senior Tour, or web.com (then Nationwide). He told me I was crazy and that Wei would be the #1 player in that group.

Right now that group would include Jay Sigel (2 time US Amateur Champ), Austin Matthews (an alternate at this year's US Open and quarterfinalist at the US Amateur), at least a dozen men that have played in at least one tour event, Pete Oakley who won the British Senior Open in 2004, a few club pros like Rich Steinmetz who can go out and shoot 65 from 6900 yards on any given day, and about a dozen plus handicappers from that same distance.

I have played in events with some of the truly best players from just this area where I hit the same number of fairways and greens as some of them and they still kill me. I have a decent short game, but their short game is 3x better than mine.

I don't see Michelle Wei or anyone else ranked 100th on the LPGA scaring these guys. Me, sure. Them, no way. Just my $0.02.


Posted

lol I'm not sure where this thread is heading - but I definitely am skeptic over the claims of distance being reached in the past few replies.

I read the posts that you were responding to with this reply, but I'm not sure why you are so skeptical that some players can hit the ball a very long way. Us mere mortals may not be able to hit the ball that far (I sure can't), but I have seen many who can indeed hit Driver 8 iron into a 540 yard par 5. Loads of guys have the length to do this. Most of them can't score all that well, but that is an entirely different matter. Some can hit it that far, and can score too.


Posted

i have read this whole thread and while some have valid points I will stick by my thoughts which are a scratch golfer would get his butt kicked by 80% of the field in a lpga event. I dont think people give the ladies enough credit. These girls can flat out play.


Posted
i have read this whole thread and while some have valid points I will stick by my thoughts which are a scratch golfer would get his butt kicked by 80% of the field in a lpga event. I dont think people give the ladies enough credit. These girls can flat out play.

80%. Which means you agree he'd still be better than 20% of the pro female golfers in the field. I think that was the OP's point in the first place.

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
[quote name="Slice of Life" url="/t/27302/male-scratch-golfer-on-the-lpga-tour/126#post_898084"] 80%. Which means you agree he'd still be better than 20% of the pro female golfers in the field. I think that was the OP's point in the first place. [/quote] And it's worth noting that a male scratch golfer is a good, but not even a great amateur. Probably isn't gonna win his club championship, and isn't nearly good enough to be competitive at even the mini-tour level..... The difference between women's and men's professional golf is huge.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted
80%. Which means you agree he'd still be better than 20% of the pro female golfers in the field. I think that was the OP's point in the first place.

I think the OP's point is that he'd be better than even 20%. He might be better than 50%. He might keep his LPGA card year after year. I think the OP's taught a few LPGA-level players, and knows how bad the middle and bottom of the LPGA players can be.

There's a HUGE difference between the men's and women's tours.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I think the OP's point is that he'd be better than even 20%. He might be better than 50%. He might keep his LPGA card year after year. I think the OP's taught a few LPGA-level players, and knows how bad the middle and bottom of the LPGA players can be.

There's a HUGE difference between the men's and women's tours.

Ha, forgot you started this.

True though, look at the bottom half of the LPGA...terrible.
Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

So next years US open will be played on the same course for the men and women, so do they let the men play first because it obviously takes time to get a course to that level of toughness and then take the mowers to it sunday evening to make it more women friendly?

Rich C.

Driver Titleist 915 D3  9.5*
3 Wood TM RBZ stage 2 tour  14.5*
2 Hybrid Cobra baffler 17*
4Hybrid Adams 23*
Irons Adams CB2's 5-GW
Wedges 54* and 58* Titleist vokey
Putter Scotty Cameron square back 2014
Ball Srixon Zstar optic yellow
bushnell V2 slope edition


  • Administrator
Posted

So next years US open will be played on the same course for the men and women, so do they let the men play first because it obviously takes time to get a course to that level of toughness and then take the mowers to it sunday evening to make it more women friendly?

There's no rough, so… no. They don't take the mowers to it Sunday evening.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Here is my thought on this thread.....

If we are talking a true Scratch male golfer, who can go anywhere and shoot par for the course or better....   then yes i give him a very good chance at being in the top 50 or better of the LPGA.....   Especially if he has a caddie and gets all the prep that the ladies get before going to a play at a tournament..  it might not happen right away, but if the guy was given a full season to prepare for this... I'd give him a good chance of winning a tournament and being a top 20 player....

I think the one thing to his dis-advantage is if he is hitting from where the ladies hit.... his distance could hurt him.... Since he is most likely use to playing from the tips at every course....  But even then, he could probably ditch the driver and just use his 3wood, and bag another Wedge or hybrid......

It is what it is

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

And it's worth noting that a male scratch golfer is a good, but not even a great amateur. Probably isn't gonna win his club championship

Do all golf clubs have many + handicaps in their resume?


Posted
Here is my thought on this thread.....

If we are talking a true Scratch male golfer, who can go anywhere and shoot par for the course or better....   then yes i give him a very good chance at being in the top 50 or better of the LPGA.....   Especially if he has a caddie and gets all the prep that the ladies get before going to a play at a tournament..  it might not happen right away, but if the guy was given a full season to prepare for this... I'd give him a good chance of winning a tournament and being a top 20 player....

I think the one thing to his dis-advantage is if he is hitting from where the ladies hit.... his distance could hurt him.... Since he is most likely use to playing from the tips at every course....  But even then, he could probably ditch the driver and just use his 3wood, and bag another Wedge or hybrid......

Hmmm...That's not what "a true Scratch male golfer" is. Plenty of courses have course ratings well above par and a scratch golfer could theoretically stay scratch and NEVER shoot par on those courses.

Edit: BTW I have no idea how the typical scratch golfer would do on the LPGA Tour. My guess is that some would do very well and some wouldn't. Some can maintain a good handicap while not being very good at tournament golf.


Posted

Do all golf clubs have many + handicaps in their resume?

Depending on where you are I guess.  The middle of nowhere, probably not.  A decent sized community, maybe a half dozen or more.  I'm outside of Orlando.  Lot's of golf, but not a real densely populated area by any means......no Miami, Chicago, NY, Philly, LA, etc......  My previous club (maybe 500 members) probably had a handful +1 or better, and probably another 25 under 1.  Just for reference, playing off 6ish, I was usually flighted towards the bottom of the first (not championship) flight in our club championship.

I'd imagine you could dig up a dozen or two plus hcp amateurs just in the greater Orlando area, and who knows, maybe a hundred honest scratch?

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1491 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • The first post is here:   Do you have an overly long backswing that ruins sequencing and leads to poor shots? In nearly 20 years of teaching, I've found 5 common faults. You don't have to swing like Jon Rahm, but a shorter swing will probably help you #PlayBetter golf. Which is your fatal flaw? #1 - Trail Elbow Bend Average golfers ♥️ bending their trail elbows. It can feel powerful! Tour players bend their trail elbows MUCH less. A wider trail elbow creates a longer hand path and preserves structure. It also forces more chest turn; not everything longer is bad! Overly bending your trail elbow can wreak havoc on your swing. It pulls your arms across/beside your body. It requires more time to get the elbow bend "out," ruining your sequencing. The lead arm often bends and low point control is destroyed. The misconception is that it will create more speed, but that's often the opposite of what happens. Golfers often feel they swing "easier" but FASTER with wider trail elbows. Want to play better golf with a shorter backswing? Don't bend your elbow so much. #2 - Hip (Pelvis) Turn I see this all the time: a golfer's hips are only 5-10° open at impact, but he turns them back 60°+ in the backswing. Unless your father is The Flash, your hips are probably not getting 40° open at impact from there! That's more rotation than Rory! Golfers who over-rotate their pelvis often over-turn everything - trail thigh/knee, chest/shoulders, etc. They have more work to do in the same ~0.3 seconds as a Tour player who turns back ~40° and turns through to impact 40° or so. Want to shorten the pelvis turn a bit? Learn to internally rotate into the trail hip, externally rotate away from the lead hip, and do "less" with your knees (extending and flexing) in the backswing. Learn some separation between chest and pelvis. #3 - Rolled Inside and Lifted Up Amateurs love to send the club (and their arms) around them. You see the red golfer here all the time at your local range. The problem? Your arms mostly take the club UP, not around. Going around creates no height until you have to hoist the club up in the air because you're halfway through your backswing and the club is waist high and three feet behind your butt! 😄  Learn to use your arms properly. Arms = up/down, body = around. Most golfers learn how little their arms really have to do in the backswing. The picture here is all you've gotta do (but maybe with a properly sized club!). #4 - Wide Takeaway Width is good, no? Yes, if you're wide at the right time and in the right spots. Golfers seeking width often don't hinge the club much early in the backswing… forcing them to hinge it late. Hinging the club late puts a lot of momentum into the club, wrists, and elbow just before we need to make a hairpin turn in transition and go the other direction at the start of the downswing. When you're driving into a hairpin curve, you go into it slowly and accelerate out of it. Waiting to hinge is like coasting down the straightaway and accelerating into the hairpin. Your car ends up off the road, and your golf ball off the course. Give hinging at a faster rate (earlier) then coasting to the top a try. You'll be able to accelerate out of the hairpin without the momentum of the arms and club pulling in the wrong direction.   #5 - Sway and Tilt Some sway is good but sometimes I see a golfer who just… keeps… swaying… Their chest leans forward a bit for balance, resulting in a whole lotta lean. The green line below is the GEARS "virtual spine." Pros sway a bit, but stay ~90°. This sway often combines with the extra pelvis turn because this golfer is not putting ANY limits on what the "middle of them" (their pelvis) is doing in the backswing. These golfers spend a lot of energy just to get back to neutral! The best players begin pushing forward EARLY in the backswing. Often before the club gets much past their trail foot! Pushing forward (softly) first stops your backward sway and then begins to get your body moving toward the target. Push softly, but early!  
    • I  no longer spend the time and effort trying to sell something I no longer need. Instead, if the clubs are in good condition, I go to my local golf shop or even Dicks Sporting Goods. Trade the clubs in for store credit and pick up something I need, like a hat. Cause you always need another golf hat!
    • Day 205 3-10 Wider backswing, reconnecting arm in downswing/arching wrist through. Also worked on less pause at the top. Recorded and hit a few foam balls. 
    • I really enjoyed this episode with Nick from Callaway. I didn't know the problem with swing weight and female golfers, but it makes sense. I actually think swing weight might not matter that much. If everyone senses the club differently, then wouldn't it mean that people might feel swing weights differently? Swing weight is a way to classify how heavy a club feels during the swing. Yet for a 70-year-old golfer, a D0 might feel like a D4 for a 25-year-old golfer? I think stronger people would consider higher swing weights lighter. Maybe a C8 equals a D2 in terms of feel?   
    • Wordle 1,725 3/6 ⬜🟨⬜🟨⬜ ⬜🟨🟩⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.