The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[byou79]

Went to a beginner 9-hole Par 3/4 course today to practice the S&T; swing... I gotta say I was very impressed with myself!

The only thing I can't figure out are shots that are in-between clubs.  How do I dial back the swing to hit a 60-70% shot?  Do I reduce the backswing?

Also, as I was progressing through the round, I'd hit alot of deep divot shots.  The ball would sail the expected distance, but the club head would pretty much hit the ground and come to a halt.  I feel like maybe I'm not extending and "standing up" on the downswing.  Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

[JetFan1983]

The only thing I can't figure out are shots that are in-between clubs.  How do I dial back the swing to hit a 60-70% shot?  Do I reduce the backswing?

Personal preference. Feel takes a while to develop. You gotta practice a lot. Commonly used methods are choking down on the club, taking a shorter backswing, and/or slowing down tempo. The last one takes the most feel and experience to do since decelerating near impact is usually a really bad idea, but a lot of really good players can slow their tempo down for half shots and not decel as they approach impact. Choking down a couple inches on the grip is the easiest to learn, I think. [quote name="byou79" url="/t/30537/the-stack-and-tilt-golf-swing/1332#post_736583"] Also, as I was progressing through the round, I'd hit alot of deep divot shots.  The ball would sail the expected distance, but the club head would pretty much hit the ground and come to a halt.  I feel like maybe I'm not extending and "standing up" on the downswing.  Thoughts? [/quote] Failure to slide hips. Steep crashes are prevented by the hip slide shallowing out the angle of approach of the clubhead. You are correct you want to extend while doing this. Straighten your legs as your arms stay straight through the shot. The hip slide will provide you with the correct side tilt. Extend too early and your hips probably won't move forward enough and you won't have any or enough spine tilt. Hip sliding is difficult for many to learn, but essential to playing well. The ankles roll while you do this --with your right foot rolling on its instep before it starts coming off the ground. Be aware of this critical movement when practicing. Your divots will be shallow when doing it correctly.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by byou79

Also, as I was progressing through the round, I'd hit alot of deep divot shots.  The ball would sail the expected distance, but the club head would pretty much hit the ground and come to a halt.  I feel like maybe I'm not extending and "standing up" on the downswing.  Thoughts?

Head goes forward too far rather than staying centered.

[lewisgl]

Originally Posted by ChiralClubs

Is anyone else struggling with getting to the proper shoulder turn angle?  I can't seem to get much more than 30 degrees (while maintaining a constant head position by extending my spine), whereas pros seem to be at 35-40.  I can get there, too, but when I try I end up dipping my head significantly to do it.  Anyone have any tips, or is it just a matter of not being flexible enough?  Here is an example at P3 (I am on the left):

Really good question that I have thought of recently too.   The lower I try to get the elbow the more the head wants to move down.   Must be some kind of flexibility thing as you mentioned.   Too much head movement is a killer so I decided to not try to force the left shoulder down but just to let it go down naturally.  I think it is mentioned in the Stack and Tilt book that you might have some problems if the left shoulder moves down too fast.   From the picture your spine angle might be a little more upright versus the guy on the right and that might make a little difference too.

[segagolf]

You're creating a reverse pivot, and will end up coming steeply into the ball...2 planes high on the sweepaway, and in on the downswing.....traditional, not S & T!

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by segagolf

You're creating a reverse pivot, and will end up coming steeply into the ball...2 planes high on the sweepaway, and in on the downswing.....traditional, not S & T!

I don't you understand what a reverse pivot is.  I think you may be talking about a reverse weight shift.

[byou79]

I love this site! Such a wealth of great information. I hate to belabor the point but, S&T; requires the weight on the leg closer to the target. I get it. But where should the weight be on the feet? Balls of feet? Middle of feet? Thanks!

[hoppingdivot]

Hey, newbie here.  Anyone know of any instructors who use S&T; or something similar out on Long Island (NY)?

[Missouri Swede]

Originally Posted by byou79

I love this site! Such a wealth of great information.

I hate to belabor the point but, S&T; requires the weight on the leg closer to the target. I get it. But where should the weight be on the feet? Balls of feet? Middle of feet?

Thanks!

"... keep your weight on the centers of your feet from front to back." (Page 46, regarding the setup at adress)

[keeps21]

I'm still struggling with fat/thin shots... on good days I'm fine, on bad days I can't hit the ball!

I've noticed (in the mirror) that sometimes even though I make the backswing correctly I drop my upper centre back while pushing the hips forward which is the cause of the problem of the low point of the swing being behind the ball.

Does anyone have any drills to help prevent this?

[Limpinswinger]

Originally Posted by mvmac

I don't you understand what a reverse pivot is.  I think you may be talking about a reverse weight shift.

IMO, "reverse pivot" is a misnomer.  Strictly speaking, I haven't seen a pivot in a golf swing (except for Gary Player's walking finish which might be considered a pivot of sorts), much less a reverse pivot.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Limpinswinger

IMO, "reverse pivot" is a misnomer.  Strictly speaking, I haven't seen a pivot in a golf swing (except for Gary Player's walking finish which might be considered a pivot of sorts), much less a reverse pivot.

That's not necessarily a pivot either. Every golf swing has a pivot. We "pivot" around a point. That's an accepted definition too.

[gwlee7]

Originally Posted by segagolf

You're creating a reverse pivot, and will end up coming steeply into the ball...2 planes high on the sweepaway, and in on the downswing.....traditional, not S & T!

Maybe, maybe not.  Let me show you a comparison picture of me when I used a more "conventional" swing where I was  " moving away from the target or loading on the trail foot" and now a more "Stack and Tiltish" for lack of a better way of putting it.  Each is of me about halfway down to the ball.

The left picture is from when I use to try to do all the stuff you talk about and the right is now with a more centered pivot.  I am much more shallow on the downswing by not moving "off the ball" on the backswing.  Not arguing with you.  Just showing you my experience.

[lewisgl]

I have been using the Stack and Tilt type swing, or trying to at least, over the past few months.  Have had pretty decent success with it all things considered.  I think I have a pretty good understanding of the swing and one of the main reasons I am trying this swing is because as I have gotten older I noticed that I wasn't getting over to the front side after impact and it was causing weak and poor contact.  .   Best aspects of this swing  so far for me is increased fairway wood and driver accuracy. Distance seems to be about what it used to be with the conventional type swing.    Consistency needs a lot of improvement.  Hit some pulls, some pushes,some fat and some thin iron shots, as well as some good iron shots.   I get the left shoulder down pretty good in the backswing but if I overdo it the head tends to drop down, which causes some issues most likely.  Probably the hardest aspect for me is to get the hip action correct in the downswing.  It also seems to take some time to get used to swinging with the weight on the front foot.  I used to shift away from the target in the backswing and it probably will take some time to get used to not doing that.    That is where some of the inconsistency comes from.  One of the best things I am beginning to notice is that on full wedge shots the ball is striking at least a couple of grooves higher on the face and the distance with the irons has improved because of that.

One of the questions I have about this swing is at what point is a backswing too far inside with Stack and Tilt?   I think the dropping of the left shoulder partially dictates the plane of the swing but   maybe someone can overcook this and cause problems?

[keeps21]

Originally Posted by keeps21

I'm still struggling with fat/thin shots... on good days I'm fine, on bad days I can't hit the ball!

I've noticed (in the mirror) that sometimes even though I make the backswing correctly I drop my upper centre back while pushing the hips forward which is the cause of the problem of the low point of the swing being behind the ball.

Does anyone have any drills to help prevent this?

I'm struggling to get my weight forward on the downswing. I can make a decent centred turn on the backswing but struggle to get my weight any further forward which I believe is contributing to the fat shots.

I find it alot easier to shift my weight forwards using a more traditional swing... I really want stack & tilt to work for me, it all makes sense, I understand what and why, I'm just struggling to implement it.

Saying that, the best shot I made today was when I put 95% of my weight on my left foot at address.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by keeps21

I'm struggling to get my weight forward on the downswing. I can make a decent centred turn on the backswing but struggle to get my weight any further forward which I believe is contributing to the fat shots.

I find it alot easier to shift my weight forwards using a more traditional swing... I really want stack & tilt to work for me, it all makes sense, I understand what and why, I'm just struggling to implement it.

Saying that, the best shot I made today was when I put 95% of my weight on my left foot at address.

Then do that. Maybe not 95%, more like 75%, and don't lean your torso forward as a result of keeping your weight forward.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by keeps21

I find it alot easier to shift my weight forwards using a more traditional swing... I really want stack & tilt to work for me, it all makes sense, I understand what and why, I'm just struggling to implement it.

Do you just "feel" it is a lot easier or can you see it on camera?  It may just feel that way because your are coming off the ball on the back swing and moving that weight back on the downswing. But in essence, you may not be getting your weight any further forward than you do on the S&T; swing.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by keeps21

I'm struggling to get my weight forward on the downswing. I can make a decent centred turn on the backswing but struggle to get my weight any further forward which I believe is contributing to the fat shots.

Make sure the elbow aren't separating too much on the downswing.  Can still hit it fat with the weight well forward.  The arms/elbows are another piece of the puzzle.  From the top of the backswing the elbows might feel like they're "squeezing" together as they lower.

Here's a good checkpoint.  Note how much they are pressing into the ground at this position.

Edit: You don't have to hit this exact position to hit good golf shots.  Can still have a flat left wrist at impact and have the shaft parallel to the ground earlier in this sequence.  But it doesn't hurt to work on it if you need to.  Every little bit of improvement will help