High handicappers and the amount of time to hit different shots

[right handed phil mickelson]

I was playing golf the other day and noticed that high handicapped players take a different amount of time on different shots. For example, the people that was playing in front of me I'd guess would be about a 40 handicap each. The guy was playing from the white tees (right behind the womens), and the woman was of course playing from the ladies tees. They would take about 5 minutes for both of them to tee off, a good 10 minutes or so in the fairway, and about 2 minutes around the green. I just didn't get it!. They would take forever to hit their shots from the fairway, because they kept chunking it, or shanking it, or hitting it thin, or way right. Then they got to the green and didn't even try to hit their putt. Now I know why they are 40 handicappers haha. But I've noticed this really with a lot of high handicappers, and they are just doing everything backwards. If you don't have a :45 time limit to hit your ball like you do in professional events, then take your time around the greens where you need to lol. Just my two cents.


P.S. This isn't really a rant. But if you want to take it that way then go ahead.







P.S.S. This really was a rant ...

[iacas]

Yeah, let's make sweeping generalizations about 90% of golfers based on what you observed of two people.

Plus, there's a difference between "time to hit different shots" and "time to hit eight shots from the fairway because they keep chunking, etc.". You gave no indication that their time per shot was any lower than yours.

And for those new to the game, driving is important. If they manage to hit the ball 200 yards instead of 20, they may save five shots on the hole. If they typically three-putt or four-putt the most they'll save is a shot or two.

But I must say, overall, not cool.

[Gordon McTavish]

It's a rant that I agree with.

I recall spending at least five minutes waiting for the pair in front of me to take their shots from the fairway. After achieving probably less than 200 yards off the tee with some pretty bad swings, they waited for the green ahead to clear (certainly more than 200 yards away from their position).

So, two shots later and they finally reach the green. By the time they finished the hole, I couldn't even remember why I was out there that day!

[right handed phil mickelson]

But I've noticed this really with a lot of high handicappers,

Did you miss that part iacas? I was just giving an example above of how they are slow. I wasn't making rash generalizations based on the view of the two people I saw one day. I see it ALL THE TIME with high handicappers.

[Zeph]

Of course they do. A drive can fly anything from 20 to 200 yards. Being new to the game, who wouldn't take longer time? When they reach the green, all the shots are already spent, so if they waste a couple there it doesn't matter. I've seen it numerous times myself. Taking forever to chunk a ball 10 yards and barely standing still when hitting a putt. They are of course responsible for their own behaviour, but at the same time, I believe most slow players just haven't been explained good enough the importance of keeping up the pace.

If you tell someone they are playing too slow, and they are offended, chances are they will just start getting stressed and acted up. Performing even worse than before.

Beginner courses is where a lot can be laid down. Not whipping the players around the course, but discussing the time spent on a shot and how to shorten it. The time spent swinging is 1-2 seconds. The rest is spent pondering which club to use. They have no clue how far it is to the hole, and they have no clue how far they hit each club. A good reason for not buying 14 clubs from the start. Then they'll have 12 clubs to choose from to hit a shot. Most of the planning should also be done before you even reach the ball. Look around, find out where you want to hit the ball and which club to use.

Some spend an awful long time standing over the ball, but most of the seconds are spent planning the shot, or goofing around for some. We can discuss this matter till the end of time, it won't change things until more effort from the people instructing beginners is set in motion. And we all know that won't happen either. So, to sum up, we're doomed to slow play.

Also, some people I almost consider frivolous for not understanding this, after me trying to explain it time after time.

Best thing we can do is encourage our local course staff and instructors to take the matter seriously and helping the slow players we encounter on the course. How being told you are playing too slow is interpreted by people is depending on a) the attitude of the reciever and b) the attitude of the tutor. I've had some encounters on the golf course I don't want to repeat. People being flat out rude and inconsiderate. Both male and female. Tone of voice, how you stand when talking, smiling or putting up an angry.gif face.

We usually prefer playing with people we know, but every now and then I encourage everyone to play a round with some random people. You might learn something and they might learn something. Through personal experience, I find that the best way to learn good etiquette is to play with people that sport it. It does not feel to good to spend a minute on every shot when those you play with spend 15 seconds.

[Elvisliveson]

And for those new to the game, driving is important. If they manage to hit the ball 200 yards instead of 20, they may save five shots on the hole. If they typically three-putt or four-putt the most they'll save is a shot or two.

That's how I see it. It's a real hassle to watch bad players who can't get the ball airborne, rushing to hit another 50 yard grounder and then taking forever reading the green, lining up their putts, making practice strokes and marking their balls when putting for 7s, 8s or

9s.

[jamo]

Did you miss that part iacas? I was just giving an example above of how they are slow. I wasn't making rash generalizations based on the view of the two people I saw one day. I see it ALL THE TIME with high handicappers.

So what if you see it all the time. They take their time in the fairways because a) they hit a lot of shots, and b) they are trying to get better. When i have a bad hole, the last thing they (and I) want to do is putt. So they get it over with fast.

I've seen plenty of slow handicappers, just for different reasons. Maybe it just seems like high-handicappers take more time because there are more high-handicappers than low-handicappers.

P.S.S.

BTW it's "P.P.S."

[sean_miller]

My 1.85 cents (Canadian money).

Some high handicappers know they suck.

On the greens, a putt is a putt. It can be reasonably replicated on the practice green or even at home in the living room - for free - why waste time on the course? They also know that a par is out of the question so why fret over a putt - just git 'er done.

On the tee, there's a $3 golf ball waiting to say good bye with every shot - water, woods, deep rough, over the fence into a yard or a pasture. Once you have a go-to tee shot, or you're at least aware of where a miss will end up, it's a piece of cake. When you don't have a clue where the ball is going, there are some tough decisions to make and the palms get sweaty. All you see are the hazards.

From the fairway: a gazillion options, all the swingthoughts and shot types from Golf Digest bouncing in and out of conscious thought. Go with a fairway wood, a hybrid, lay up with a mid iron, what the hell is a mid-iron, arrrgh.

Every decent player, who's been decent for a long time, should teach a junior or a spouse to golf. It's a great eye opener / reminder.

[Dub]

Pace of play is a huge issue!!!

It is something that a lot of local courses have been lax on...not sure how it is in your areas.

I'm not trying to set any land speed records or anything. I don't even walk that fast, but I don't delay needlessly either.

It's really as simple as evaluating your next shot/putt as you are approaching it. Have a consistent preshot routine that is efficient and then step up and pull the trigger.

Practice swings, if you must, can be done out other players sight/hearing while they are taking care of their shots.

Park your cart at the exit points of green complexes. Tally up the scores for everyone as you are advancing to the next tee.


Carry a wedge, chipping club and your putter to the ball on errant approaches. Decide which one you are using as you are walking to the ball. Also get your break reading done as you are walking to your ball.


Groups playing ready golf can help, too.

Everyone has to learn somtime and somewhere, but it shouldn't be at the expense of others. We've all experienced encounters like the OP posted. Most likely, we've all been the culprit, too.

Two things that I feel are low cost aids to the slow play issue are:

•Have the starter discuss the start and, more importantantly, the turnaround times with each group.
•Post a sign on a few tee boxes that post a number to call to report slow play. Sounds meanspirited but this ever present reminder and occassional follow up by the starter will work wonders.

The last course I belonged to had nice large display gps units on each cart. They could send messages to specific carts to warn them. They have your ahead/behind time constantly updating.

I'll bet the PGA tour will crack down further this year.

[iacas]

Did you miss that part iacas?

Nope. Didn't miss it.

The simple fact is that ability or handicap is not related to the length of time it takes to play a round of golf. If anything, the studies I've seen through the years indicate that better players are often slower. Perhaps you're too young to be aware of how easily your biases can shape your memories. You see people playing slowly, and if they're good, you don't note it, but if they suck, you note it. That's just one way you could arrive at your current opinion/belief. Bias and prejudice influence the opinions of people all the time, in all areas of people's lives. Just the other day my friend in retail sales told me about a study he'd read: customers overlook shitty service from stores they like and remember every detail of the bad service they get at stores they don't like. We saw it here on the forum in the Land Rover thread. The things apparently break down all the time, but because they're a status symbol and you'd feel foolish if you owned a LR and noticed how often it broke, your mind helps you to push the facts to the side in favor of your perception. It boils down to the fact that your memories are likely incomplete, biased/prejudiced, or flat out wrong. Facts are that better players tend to play slower, not the other way around (and not by a significant margin, either - everyone plays too slowly as a whole). I don't care for the bashing - you weren't magically born a 3.0 handicapper.

Did you miss that part iacas? I was just giving an example above of how they are slow. I wasn't making rash generalizations based on the view of the two people I saw one day. I see it ALL THE TIME with high handicappers.

Of course they do. A drive can fly anything from 20 to 200 yards. Being new to the game, who wouldn't take longer time? When they reach the green, all the shots are already spent, so if they waste a couple there it doesn't matter. I've seen it numerous times myself. Taking forever to chunk a ball 10 yards and barely standing still when hitting a putt. They are of course responsible for their own behaviour, but at the same time, I believe most slow players just haven't been explained good enough the importance of keeping up the pace.

I'll bet the PGA tour will crack down further this year.

Keep dreamin'!

[plugged]

When you have zero confidence in your swing and no idea where the ball is going once you strike it (if in fact you do strike it), then your level of stress builds up exponentially during the preparation part of a shot, to the point that the actual shot is nothing more than a physical expression of your frenzied mental state. All that stress building up adds time to your shot, the idea being that if you try to force yourself to slow, you will make a better shot. This of course is rarely true and in fact the opposite occurs. you end up thinking way too long about a shot that was probably going to be mediocre at best to begin with. Trust me, I know this from experience. Thankfully, I can say that while I am certainly no low-HC'er today, I am not hte player I once was.

[James_Black]

Do you think that maybe they didn't putt and were hitting bad shots because you were behind them?

Makes them want to play faster and they rush their shots.

[Tiger Spuds]

Oh to be young and foolish again.

How is any High Handicapper supposed to improve if they can't be afforded time on the course to try and figure out what they're doing wrong and try something new?Excessively slow play for a good player is unacceptable in my opinion but it just doesn't apply to someone who doesn't really know what they're doing out there.

[Greg]

A lot of beginners just dont realize how long they take. I fall into the category of high handicapper but I try to play fast. Ive advanced beyond the point of hitting it 50 yards in a cloud of dust every time but ill occasionally hit some bad shots. Also, beginners dont have a concept of pace of play or that if they're going too slow they should let someone who is faster go ahead of them. This is the main reason I like playing during the week, weekends are when you have all the hackers out there. I dont even like playing in a foursome with 3 other decent players, just takes too long for me, if the other 3 were worse than me and really slow, I lose my concentration and play poorly too. If i cant play 18 in at least 4 hours or less, thats too slow in a twosome, usually 2 hours or less for 9. Ive played 9 in less than an hour by myself before if Im playing well, played 18 alone in 2 1/2 hours and that was with me waiting and getting waved ahead many times of slower groups on a pretty busy day. Ive never been grouped with strangers as courses around here just dont do that as some have mentioned but I wouldnt be against the idea. A lot of people like playing alone around here, concentrate on their own game, etc. Im still just beyond the beginner stage myself so I understand the difficulties involved. Also looking for your ball all the time is frustrating for newbies as well, just creates more stress for the next shot. Everyone has to start somewhere and most are very bad at first, thats just how it is.

[pandp]

You can tell how bad a player is by counting the head covers in their bag. If they have 5 woods and they're teeing off in front of me, i'm heading to the putting green or back to the house.

[OCdude12]

A round of golf should NEVER take more than 4 hours and 30 minutes. I would say never more than 4, but things do happen out there (lost balls) that can drag a round on a little longer. Handicap doesn't matter, there are low handicap players that play slow as well as high handicap players. There are times and places taking more time on a shot is fine, if the course is empty, go ahead, take as much time as you want, but at first site of someone waiting a couple minutes for you, let them play through.

Someone mentioned higher handicap players might take longer because they're learning. The course is not always the place to learn, go to the range or take an ettiquete class. If you do notice a group that is constantly on your back, do what was said already, prepare your shot ahead of time so you're ready when its your turn. I'm sick of seeing people take 4-5 practice swings, stand over the ball for 20 more seconds and then proceed to duff it. Save everyone the time, take one practice swing and hit the ball, at that level does it really make a difference? I am all for people learning the game, but please, just be aware of others on the course.

[nike_golf]

I think it is a little stereotypical to paint the slow players as the high HCP'ers. I'll get behind groups of guys every now and then who are playing as if it's the eighteenth hole of the Masters and they're in a playoff w/ each other. And they aren't high HCP'ers, they are usually very good golfers.

My experiences w/ bad golfers is actually better than my experiences playing behind better golfers. The bad golfers almost always realize they are bad, and have no problem letting faster, better players through.

[tm22721]

To get down to a 10 handicap quickly, find your limitations and play within them. For instance if you can't consistently hit anything longer than a 7i straight, then the leave the longer clubs in the garage. If you only practice with a 7i you can get very good with it. Good enough to par the 3's and 5's and layup on the 4's for bogey. That's a 10 handicap !