Official 2010 Masters Thread

[mtsalmela80]

Tiger is officially the golf anti-hero now. As the golf channel said it at some point, if he won, the "bad guy" won. Here we had the shining prince come out with the victory. Its about as soap-operaish as Ive ever seen golf.

[iacas]

I love phil. Ever since he gave his watch and $200 to the spectator he hit, he's been my fav. What a class act.

Phil didn't give him his watch, he gave him $200 only. Wise investment, too - he got more than $200 worth of publicity.

The biggest result of the Tiger "scandal" is that it has emboldened those who dislike him. Ooooh, he said "goddammit" on a golf course. You hear worse standing around IN THE PRO SHOP at most golf courses. Do you really care that much, or does it make you feel good to get up on your high horse? If you've never cursed (and be real - "goddammit" is tame compared to what he'd say in the past, so it's a step in the right direction), go ahead and cast the first stone. If you've ever sworn at a time when you shouldn't have - let alone under the pressure and in a situation like Tiger (or any of the other competitors) - then pipe down. Can he do better? Sure. We'd all like him to do so. But did he improve somewhat this week? Sure. Frankly, I just wish he'd fix his swing. We'd hear a lot less "you suck"s and "goddammit"s if he would stop slicing and rope-pulling shots right and left.

[Chilli Dipper]

Let me congratulate the players who earned a spot into next year's Masters on the strength of their scores during this tournament.

Lee Westwood
Anthony Kim
KJ Choi
Nick Watney
Hunter Mahan
Ricky Barnes
Ian Poulter
Miguel Angel Jimenez
Jerry Kelly
Ryan Moore
David Toms
Steve Marino

Get to the range, boys. The next green jacket ceremony is only 364 days away!

[mirv]

i pretty much agree with eric. all this hooplah about tiger "not changing his stripes" is making mountains out of molehills in my opinion. cursing under his breath i'm totally fine with. it was the stuff like throwing his club into the gallery after a bad shot that i felt he should tone down on, and he didn't do anything like that, so. there we had it.

aside from that - and i apologize if this has already come up elsewhere and i just overlooked it - does anyone know how far/how accurately jack and arnold drove on their honorary opening tee shots? i saw a clip of it, but it never showed/mentioned where the balls wound up.

[sonicblue]

WHOA! Calm down there, tiger... Its not even the best round he has played, let alone all time. Might have been one of his most important rounds, but i can go anywhere near best of all time.

I'm talking all things considered, not just a score. With the importance of the mental game at the PGA level, Tiger manages to compartmentalize his personal life, the media bonanza, the stress over what reception he'll get from fans and fellow players, and on and on, and shoot his lowest first-round at the Masters? I mean, if NONE of the 'stuff' had happened, at the time, we would have absolutely been talking about, Tiger shooting his best first-round ever, and maybe his running away with it because of that, and the great shot-making it took to shoot that score in that weather, and he did it all with a metric TON of distractions. In the end, the guy, in reality, finishes two "WTF swings" away from WINNING. Winning the Masters, his 1st tournament back, while going through what the media has declared the biggest scandal ever in the sport?? I think Tiger has only proved he still has many more miracles in his bag.

[sonicblue]

All you guys who think "so-and-so was a class act," are babes in the woods, IMO. Phil giving a spectator $200? That's the equivalent of me throwing a homeless guy a dollar, not even a hiccup in his finances. I could easily couch that is Phil being glib about his wealth. He carries (probably more than) $200 in cash with him during a tour round? As Erik said, or it was merely an investment in publicity. I'm not talking these guys DOWN because of it, but for all of you talk these people UP to some kind of higher status, and knock Tiger down because he doesn't do these things? You are all judging books by their covers from a mile away. So much so, that Tiger's reaction to his birdie putt is being scrutinized? Maybe it felt like an awful stroke to him, and it fell, and he thought, "man, five other putts today felt perfect and didn't fall, now that I'm out of it, lousily-stroked putts fall??!!??" Who knows?

What drives me crazy about all of this, the good, the bad, Tiger, Phil, AK, whoever....is we can't just appreciate the face value. Everyone wants to make all these future predictions, assumptions, situations. Phil gives a guy $200 - ok, nice gesture, good for him. "Phil is a class act, what a great guy, what a good family man, and oh, well TIGER doesn't do things like that, he's such a robot, he curses..." I know I go on rants at times, and people think it's because I'm trying to spread my opinions; in reality, I'm usually talking people OUT of their own opinions, which are often so ingrained but based on so many loose assumptions. Don't read into things, don't read into people, don't assume you know the facts.

You don't like Tiger's sulking, so what, I don't like it either, I don't christen him a bad person. Phil is Mr. Happy on the course, sure, but Phil also routinely packs his bags on Friday evenings, as do a ton of other 'top golfers' (Furyk went home with a +12 this week). I try to simply admire the fact that Tiger is there, fighting, scratching, clawing EVERY week in contention, and occasionally plays the game at an absolutely ethereal level. I don't like watching Phil's seemingly aloof attitude and lack of competitive fire (he seems to show it only when playing his best, IMO, otherwise, he seems ok with being mediocre), but he absolutely won that thing with some sick shots, great for him, but to go on and on about why he's so great, and Tiger's so whiny, and well, Jack was so great, and....man, speaking of soap operas,

[Fourputt]

To each his own. I've always been a fan Tiger, but his post round interview was disappointing to say the least. Okay, so he plans to win every tournament he enters... fine. But it ain't gonna happen Tiger, so you could be just a little bit gracious about a top 5 finish after a 5 month layoff. I mean, you shot 11 under par at the Masters when playing bad golf, and got beat by some great players playing great golf. I expect you will be back, so you could show some appreciation for just being there.

As to the above comment about :

Phil is Mr. Happy on the course, sure, but Phil also routinely packs his bags on Friday evenings, as do a ton of other 'top golfers' (Furyk went home with a +12 this week). I try to simply admire the fact that Tiger is there, fighting, scratching, clawing EVERY week in contention, and occasionally plays the game at an absolutely ethereal level. I don't like watching Phil's seemingly aloof attitude and lack of competitive fire (he seems to show it only when playing his best, IMO, otherwise, he seems ok with being mediocre), but he absolutely won that thing with some sick shots, great for him, but to go on and on about why he's so great, and Tiger's so whiny, and well,

Tiger is traditionally unapproachable on or off course. Phil is a people person. He likes the fans. He enjoys being a celebrity, but he shows it in his relations with the fans, not by being Mr. "I'm so good that the fans are beneath my notice." He signs autographs, sometimes for very long periods. He takes time off from his game to spend with his family, and did so even before the recent crises. He enjoys playing fun golf with his buddies when he is home. Phil is human, on and off the course. Tiger has never shown a human side.

While I will continue to respect his game, That whiny interview sort of lost something for me as a fan.

[BallStriker]

Phil is Mr. Happy on the course, sure, but Phil also routinely packs his bags on Friday evenings

Over Phil's last 50 events, he has missed a total of 3 cuts -- I would hardly consider this "routinely" missing the cut. Over Tiger's last 50 events, he has missed 2 cuts.

Just sharing "facts"

[Zeph]

I'm interested in seeing how Phil continues after this win. He's been 5+ shots off the winner all tournaments up to the Masters.

[sonicblue]

Yeah, take a small sample window and Phil looks, well, still not better than Tiger, but not as bad as I implied. However, if we're really going to talk "facts".....

Tiger has missed only 15 cuts in his entire career, and 7 of those were his FIRST 7 starts (92-94). So, Tiger has missed 8 cuts in 15 years. Phil has missed 70 cuts in his career, and while he also missed a string in his first starts (3), he also had 9 in EACH of his 5th, 6th and 8th years on tour. In 2007, he missed FIVE cuts. Phil may be doing well lately, but a picture of consistency, he is not. Take off the first three years on tour for each (where both missed every cut); since then, Tiger is 97%, where Phil is 84%. You can't talk about golfers and their 'career' and only look at recent stats. Right now, is Phil in the mix? Sure, but he's also finished out of the top 10 in 75% of his starts this year, and out of the top 25 in more than half. Forget about just being there on Saturday, let's talk about truly being in contention. Based on career starts, and I'll exclude the first three years for both, when the tournament starts on Thursday: * Tiger is better than 4-to-1 (29%) to WIN; Phil only 9%. * Tiger is nearly an even bet (47%) to finish in the top THREE; Phil 20%. * Tiger is an 86% bet to finish in the top 25; Phil is only 55%. Let's take out the weeks where each misses the cut, forgive them for the weeks their game is 'off.' Tiger's stats don't change much, because he rarely misses a cut, but let's let Phil's go up appropriately: * Tiger is now 30% to WIN; Phil still just 11%. * Tiger is up slightly to 48% to finish in the top THREE; Phil 24%. * Tiger now 89% to finish in the top 25; Phil is only 66%. How about with Jack? I can't find the same stats all the way back 1962, but I'll show what I have. Jack jumped right in and won 3 times in 1962, so there's no 'early career' to exclude. In fact, I'll look squarely at his 'prime,' 1962-1981 (the last year he won multiple times): * It looks like Jack was high 94%'s in made cuts in that time. * Jack was a 6-to-1 to win (17%) * Top 10 65% of the time Phil is going to go down as one of the real talents of the game, but when it comes to competing, regularly competing, his records pales in comparison to the game's two great competitors, the guys who found the leaderboard every week. I think the real show with Tiger is yet to come, since we're routinely having players who not only play into their late 30s and 40s, but often find a new, more solid game at that age. I see no reason not to expect that Tiger will continue having years of 5, 6, 7 wins a year, if not even find MORE game in the next few years, especially given the physical shape he stays in. Phil turns 40 this year, and while my logic above says he can definitely compete for a while, his always-questionable physical shape implies that he's not one of those guys you'd expect to really play at a high level for much longer. Of course, Freddie's back defies that logic, so we'll see. Look, I'll be honest, I'm not a Phil fan, and here's the ultimate reason: because after hearing each January how "Phil's in shape," or how his swing looks great, or how he's got a "new outlook," there's too many weeks where he's completely out of the running, dropping a 75 out of nowhere, or missing seemingly every other 3-footer he sees. Being a Tiger fan, I feel like I am always getting his best effort out there, yes, even when he's cursing or one-handing his driver after a tee shot. Just when you think he's slipping down, he grinds back up. I found myself amazed this weekend, with all his antics and disappointment and "WTF" moments, he barely left the first-page leaderboard for any period of time. It makes me root for him. Sometimes, when Phil's not going well, it's like he mails it in and waits for next week. It's just my gut feeling.

Over Phil's last 50 events, he has missed a total of 3 cuts -- I would hardly consider this "routinely" missing the cut. Over Tiger's last 50 events, he has missed 2 cuts.

[iacas]

* Tiger is nearly an even bet (47%) to finish in the top THREE; Phil 20%.

I don't want to turn this into a Tiger vs. Phil thing, but I did want to point out that it's incredible that Tiger finishes in the top THREE nearly as often as Phil finishes in the top 25.

It was a good, enjoyable Masters.

[Zeph]

Well, isn't that what makes golf entertaining? Having 75 players walk around hitting a spectacular shot one time, a disaster the next, without showing emotion, and you got yourself a dull evening. It is fun to watch the best golfers play golf, but it's even more fun when something out of the ordinary happens. Something as simple as Lee Westwood having to shush the "patrons" before his bunker shot adds some excitement. I'm not a fan of severly foul language and clubs thrown into the crowds, but hearing "TIG----ER, you suck", is just fun, despite the misfortune of his shot.

Tiger expects to win all the time and to hit good shots all the time, of course he will be disappointed a lot. He often plays equally good golf as the rest of the field, yet the TV cameras are unmistakenly often aimed at him. He's got character. So does John Daly. He can shoot an 80 and still get a lot of air time, because he's got character.

Lets hope golf does not become what is often depicted in the movies when demonstrating something dull, a pair of english gentlemen in their dresses and hats, sipping to a tiny cup of tea, talking about the weather.

Nudge, nudge, wink wink. Know what I mean?

[mcfc_nick]

Like Tiger said in his interview afterwards, i just think that everybody is making wayyyy too much of this, so he lets his emotions boil over sometimes and bursts out with a couple of bad words, big deal, its not going to scar you for life is it? If everybody just went around chasing after a small white ball for 18 holes and showing no emotion then this game gets that bit duller and him coming out with these outbursts just shows to me that he cares about what he is doing and is sooo competitive that he wants to win every time he plays, everybody just needs to chill about it and eventually he will tone it down.

[Shindig]

Here's something interesting: Tom Watson is now ranked 101 in the world, despite the hindrance that he has only 5 tournaments, but the minimal divisor is 40. If they divide his points by 5 instead, he would be #2 with 11.4 points, far closer to Tiger than Phil (for both readings of that sentence). Another hindrance in his ranking is two of those five are missed cuts.

[Fartmist]

My problem with Tiger's Bigger than the game additute is his every outbust is going to be played out by kids everywhere starting to golf. They will think it is accepted to act this way and it is not. Tiger hasn't learned a thing by his humbling affairs of the heart. He thinks he is bigger than the game. The world doesn't revolve around Tiger or any player on the tour. Proper golf ettiquete should be enforced on the course and he should be fined in increasing amounts until he shows proper respect for the game.

[Cussin hacker]

Tiger is a natural born spoiled A-hole. I was once a Tiger fan, but have grown tired of his, the world revolves around me attitude!

[bigoak]

Its funny how Tiger's outbursts, fist pumps, finger points and struts with foul language was ok and now it is not. My problem is with the G..Damn its. If he is a Buddist then it should be Budda damn it. Now he is signing autographs and making nice. It's just an act Folks just an act.

A female commentator said " There isn't a man in America who would want to be Tiger Woods now" just before his televised apology with his mother there to hug afterwards. With all the wealth and the rest, I would seriously try switching places. There are still a lot of people including many women who still love the Tiger. His wife, not so much.

[zeg]

My problem is with the G..Damn its. If he is a Buddist then it should be Budda damn it.

It's not a coincidence that swear words are called "expletives," according to the original meaning of expletive:

expletive (grammar): a word or phrase used to fill out a sentence or a line of verse without adding to the sense. "god dammit," "jesus christ," etc, are phrases used by custom to express an emotion, not to convey their literal meanings. They're essentially idiomatic. In some cases it's clear what the literal origins were, but in modern usage one isn't normally invoking actual religious beliefs when he uses these words.