Top High Handicapper Mistake

[SandSpanker]

My demon is trying to 1 in a 100 shots over and over. Trying to be like Tiger I guess. But with age I hope I get better at not being stupid with course mgmt.

[Phil McGleno]

Work on your full swing. I agree.

Saw this article too:
http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction...016196,00.html

Backs that up.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Here's the thing: almost nobody is a bogey golfer or worse because of "course management."

Never said they were.

They're all high handicappers because they hit the ball badly. They hit it fat, thin, slice it 40 yards, etc.

No disagreement there.

I've yet to see a guy who hits the ball well who can't break 90 because of course management.

Have you ever seen a guy who hits the ball well by your definition and who can't break 90? Pitiful around the greens would be the only explanation.

If I had to choose a guy who can't break 90 and say what percentage of "bad short game," "crappy ballstriking," and "poor course management" contributed to their suckiness, it's at least 80% "crappy ballstriking."

80% crappy ballstriking is what keeps them from shooting in the 70s. Someone who is stuck at 92 or 93 can easily drop a few strokes and get into the 80s with a few course management skills alone. Won't break 80, but will break 90.

This is not about "what skills you bring to the course today," it's about "what skills you have every day."

??? Those sound like the same thing to me.

The single easiest way to lower your handicap is to hit the ball better.

No disagreement there, but is this what the thread is about? Not being able to hit the ball well is not a mistake. Its a lack of skill.

I'd wager a good bit that you're held back because you don't strike the ball as well as you should to be a 7 or an 8.

Come out to Oregon. Play a few rounds with me to see how I hit the ball. I keep track of my rounds, and I know turn a lot of rounds in the high 70s into the low 80s by making dumb decisions, or by not noticing everything first, or by not playing with confidence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the universal truth that corresponds most directly to the widest range of handicappers is "where's your low point?" Mine's a few inches in front of the golf ball. Odds say (and I mean like 99% odds) yours is behind the golf ball.

Looks like I beat the odds.

With all due respect, nah, not even close to true. I can break 90 (and 80) hitting every shot with my right foot on its tippy toes, or several other things you could have me do.

(The quote above is a response to my comment that correcting setup would be the biggest improvement a high handicapper could make.) No doubt you are skilled enough to do what you say. But 95 shooters aren't.

[iacas]

Have you ever seen a guy who hits the ball well by your definition and who can't break 90? Pitiful around the greens would be the only explanation.

Nope. And I've talked to some instructors about this and they haven't either. In fact, this thread was a topic of discussion when I was around ten other instructors one time, and they all agreed. One guy said he had a student who could hit the ball really crisply, but he never knew what direction the ball would go. That's as close as we got to remembering a SINGLE guy like the one you've described.

80% crappy ballstriking is what keeps them from shooting in the 70s. Someone who is stuck at 92 or 93 can easily drop a few strokes and get into the 80s with a few course management skills alone. Won't break 80, but will break 90.

Exactly... and they'll still be a high handicapper. Dropping two shots does not make you a mid-handicapper.

Come out to Oregon. Play a few rounds with me to see how I hit the ball. I keep track of my rounds, and I know turn a lot of rounds in the high 70s into the low 80s by making dumb decisions, or by not noticing everything first, or by not playing with confidence.

Again, a two or three stroke move still leaves you in the same "region" of handicaps - high, mid, low.

Looks like I beat the odds.

I doubt it. But since we have no real way of proving it... what's the point?

(The quote above is a response to my comment that correcting setup would be the biggest improvement a high handicapper could make.) No doubt you are skilled enough to do what you say. But 95 shooters aren't.

We teach high handicappers. We make them mid-handicappers and better. We rarely adjust their setup.

As for what this thread is about, given the choices, "poor ballstriking" or "reverse pivot" is indeed a mistake. If casting/flipping is a mistake, then so is "poor ballstriking" in general. P.S. Almost nobody has a reverse pivot. I've seen only a few, ever. Most people just never get the forward part - they don't go forward and THEN back.

[TopMostOfEm]

OMG!!!

Thank you to those who have defended flipping as the number 1 problem!!

It sure is for me!

While I am still terrible, now that I am focused on maintaing my lag via:

Eyes focused 1 inch in front of the ball towards the target

Proper weight shift

Keeping then power package intact... Including maintaining lag as long as possible

By starting the downswing with knees, hips, shoulders, arms

It now Feels like I strike the ball with my left arm...instead of my right hand!

I've taken my first divot ever (today) without an instructor present, and I DID NOT TOP MOST OF THEM!!!

Thank you, gentlemen!!

[TopMostOfEm]

Oh, two other points:

It takes 33 percent of the effort to drive the ball a greater distance... And for once I have something to hold on to as far as starting to look for some consistency in building positive progress!

[sean_miller]

I never understood flipping. It's totall counterintuitive. Unless you're playing a sport the heavy end of the stick is in your hands (e.g. billiards) you always want to lead with your hand(s). Anything else seems ridiculous. Even a flop shot doesn't need to have the clubhead lead. How f***ing bad are people at sports in general to not be able to figure that out themselves?

[Zeph]

I never understood flipping. It's totall counterintuitive.

It's actually pretty logical.

You got a) the ball and b) the clubhead. You want b to meet a. Find 100 people who have never held a golf club before and ask them to hit the ball. I'd be surprised if even a few did not flip it. There is the mental want to hit the ball, and there is the fact that we are hitting the ball with a lofted club, so naturally most people are trying to get under the ball and hit up on it.

[sean_miller]

It's actually pretty logical.

I can see that happening if these 100 people have;

1.) never played any other stick and ball sports 2.) have never seen anyone successfully hit several golf shots 3.) have no ability to see what they're doing is not working and try something else and 4.) have never played tiddly winks (a childrens game popular when I was one).

[TopMostOfEm]

Well Sean,

I can tell you that I'm that bad at sports in general. Not everyone is an athelete.

But you know what? Because some people would rather talk about how to get past this problem (which, obviously many, many people have) rather than talk about how f****** bad the people are who suffer from it -- I'm on my way to thinking I can actually learn to play this game.

[sean_miller]

Well Sean,

Hey, you're saying what I just said. You're a flipper and you're bad at sports. Some responders to this poll/thread have implied that everyone who ever picked up a club was a flipper because "it's natural". I don't think it is. It is however, very common.

So is being bad at sports. A lot of grown men throw a baseball like a little girl - just watch the ceremonial first pitch made by many male celebrities at MLB games. These guys obviously thought they were athletic enough to throw a regulation baseball 60' 6" or the wouldn't have accepted the offer. Learn the proper technique, get stronger (work on your golf muscles) and, practice, practice, and practice some more. Even good athletes started from zero at some point. I've seen enough of them start at square one and pass me by very soon to know this.

[golfro]

fro my experience with teaching some friends, flipping is a bandaid thing that a lot of high handicappers do.

for someone who is not familiar with a golf swing, you tell them swing slow motion with their hands leading the club and what they see is that the club face is open at impact because they don't have the proper body/hip/shoulder movement to get that club squared. So what do they do instead of working on their overall swing? They simply flip their wrist and roll over aggressively to get the face square at impact.

[Zeph]

So is being bad at sports. A lot of grown men throw a baseball like a little girl - just watch the ceremonial first pitch made by many male celebrities at MLB games. These guys obviously thought they were athletic enough to throw a regulation baseball 60' 6" or the wouldn't have accepted the offer.

I've played pretty much every sport available in my area, and would consider myself generally athletic and able to pick up on things quickly. Among relevant sports, I've played badminton, darts, table tennis, field hockey, basketball and baseball. None in any major league, but compared to my playing partners, I've done it well. I've been fly fishing too, if that matters.

Despite of this, I'm flipping like there is no tomorrow with a golf club in my hands. I know why you should not flip better than most golfers out there, but there is something built into my head or body that cause it. For some, the ability to hit down on the ball with the hands in front at impact is probably natural, but it has never been for me. So don't go running off with assumptions based on your own experiences. People are put together differently.

[sean_miller]

I've played pretty much every sport available in my area, and would consider myself generally athletic and able to pick up on things quickly. Among relevant sports, I've played badminton, darts, table tennis, field hockey, basketball and baseball. None in any major league, but compared to my playing partners, I've done it well. I've been fly fishing too, if that matters.

Badminton is one of the few stick/ball type sports you can lead with the striking surface. A racquet head is very light, has very little wind resistance and a shuttlecock is almost weightless. Think more forehand volley in tennis racquet and less overhead smash in badminton.

[chilly]

Poor ball striking for sure. Sure a high handicapper may blade a chip around the green, or should pull 7i and lay up instead of going for the green with a 3w (but if he had good ball striking, he'd be able to do this anyway)...but the vast majority of big scores is due to simply not being able to hit the ball well. Also, the "decision making" part of the game is many times caused by poor ball striking. "Should I punch out, or try to hit a low 5i under that tree to the green?"...well, if a guy is a good ball striker, this type of decision doesn't have to be made as often because he'll be in the fairway.

Also, IMO, decision making and short game are easier to achieve then a good "long" game. I did not say they're EASY, just easier, so I think it's why people are compelled to want to believe that's where they can make up strokes.

[steelernation]

I read most of the thread. ballstriking/swinging arms etc its all the same. Its the number one problem with me.

My technique for longer shots is awful mostly because feeling the need to crush the ball. I have not practiced enough lately to try %80 with my driver. Once im within 100 yards, Im a 5 handicap. Im good at hitting greens and chipping(if I miss them) I generally never 2 putt. If it werent for my short game, I would be topping 100 every round. I lose at least 15 strokes a round to my tee shot.

[golfro]

you generally never 2 putt? wow...consider me impressed. So if you were to fix your longer shots, you would apparently be pro :)

[sean_miller]

I read most of the thread. ballstriking/swinging arms etc its all the same. Its the number one problem with me.

100-15 = 85

That sounds like a 14 handicap short game. A true 5 would probably be even or under par from 100 yards and in.