Top High Handicapper Mistake

[steelernation]

look at my handicap, i generally shoot 94 to 98 so 15 + extra strokes come from a tee shot the result is a 79 to 83. The last time I 3 putted was at least 4 rounds ago.

[ohiolefty]

100-15 = 85

Agreed.

...... Most high handicappers can't hit the ball worth poop (ballstriking). I feel like a lot of it is grip and setup...but that opinion clearly isn't popular here so I won't expound. I'm no PGA pro, but I hit it alright. I know that the reason my HC dropped and I started shooting good scores this year is I hit the ball reasonably close to where I want to pretty consistently, and I don't miss stupidly very often on the wrong sides of pins and greens - thus scrambing a lot better. You can compensate for a lot of weird stuff in your swing if you do whatever you do with consistency and make passable impact with the ball. There are a lot of pros with odd setups, grips and paths that end up in a good place at impact on a consistent basis, and a lot of guys with HCs lower than mine who don't have the 'swing' I have...they just hit the ball where they aim it, and do it almost all the time.

[steelernation]

sorry 3 putt LOL.

[steelernation]

my last round went like this

par 4 snap hook 100 yards left (bogey)
par 4 decent 190 yard iron shot (birdie putt from 2 ft)
par 3 hit hazard from 165 (2 strokes DB)
par 4 hit hazard w driver drop was 250 from hole (3 strokes TB)
par 4 decent drive to 150 on a 440yd hole from adjacent fairway duffed approach, then finished with 6(db)
par 4 good iron off tee to 140 stuck green from 25 feet 2 putt (par)
par 5 iron off tee due to tight hole, lay up to hazard 230 out, go for the green and hit fat into hazard, 175 out from hazard, hit green and end up 15 ft , two putt (TB 1 stroke to tee shot 2 strokes to long irons or woods)
par 3 235 yds uphill pull hook into trees, retee and land ball 12 feet from cup then 2 putt (2 strokes)
par 4 snap hook again on 450 yd par 4 2nd shot hit fat to 180 of hole, try to clear hazard and land green from nasty downhill lie and hit fat again barely clears hazard, hit on green from 80 one putt 10 feet. (1 extra stroke pitch and putt saved a stroke)

I counted a 48 after nine holes. 10 extra I attribute to the tee shot. The others were either lapses in concentration or long iron/woods that are also a problem.

Its right there. Fellow golfers have told me there is little wrong with my short game.

[TopMostOfEm]

Ok Sean, I'll concede we are saying the same thing.

On another note, and admittedly with no expertise in the matter, I wanted to comment that -- for me at least -- flipping and over swinging are related. When I tried to use brute force to get under the ball, I swung hard using my hands, then arms, then shoulders, then hips...and topped the ball.

Since trying to swing correctly, it is the reverse order of body parts...a much gentler swing...and not really possible for me to overswing.

[newtogolf]

We high handicappers have a host of problems, that range from technical to psychological.

I can put my ego in check. I played a round yesterday with a 20 handicapper. I went down 1 - 2 clubs on every shot we were close on. I put my driver away on the back 9 because I couldn't hit it and stuck with using my 3w or 5w. I tried to play it safe, laying up whenever hazards were in play. I tried to play smart, but I still shot a 130 (didn't go past double par on any hole) on a par 70. I had a few bogeys and double bogeys, here is what I learned from my first real time out since lessons.

1) Golf is alot harder than it looks

2) You have to keep your head in it all 18 holes. I found myself losing focus from 10 - 17, possible cause I'd gotten little sleep the night before or just the adrenaline dump of being pumped up to play and not eating. My form and swing got sloppy and the ball started going all over the place. Experienced golfers probably have the muscle memory to protect them more, but for me, I have to go through my check list at address to ensure I'm okay right now.

3) There are just a ton of shots you have to make on a course that don't match the perfect lie of range mats. Hitting a wedge when you're in the rough with one foot sitting 6" higher than the other isn't something you practice at the range (quote an old Honeymooners: "what am I playing a nannie goat?" )

4) Putting is critical - I had two birdie attempts that turned into double bogeys because I couldn't putt. Putting is an entire game in itself, and practicing on your carpet isn't going to get you there, at least it didn't help for me.

5) Consistently hitting each club the same distance and understanding how elevation and wind will affect the flight. I blew alot of shots because I'd either go long or fall short on a shot. I hit my 7i 170 yards with the wind at my back flew right over the green (I was expecting 150 yards). Hit my 5i 150 yards and landed in the water when the wind was in my face.

[iacas]

I can see that happening if these 100 people have;

What are you talking about? YOU probably flip more than you think.

Virtually everyone flips until they get into the mid-single digits... Believe me, plenty of people who meet each of those requirements flip when first taking up golf. I'd almost say "all" give or take a small percentage. That's why I continue to say "ballstriking" (in general) is the top high handicapper mistake (though it may depend on what you call a "mistake.").

[Varsity_Golf]

not working on the short game. High handicaper spend too much time trying to hit their driver, fairway wood, irons but spend little time with the chipping and pitch shots that are so important to scoring.

I know my handicap says 17, but that is from earlier this year with a bunch of bad scores, I just havent entered alot since. Currently I am plyaing a 10-12 hcp. The biggest this I see is right there. They like to see the ball go a LOOOONNNG way and then think putting is the easiest because it is just tapping the ball. But they have NO idea how to read greens!!! VITAL!!!!!!!!

[nevets88]

I bet if you go through all the hard drives of all the golf instructors out there bar pga/college/good amateurs, a majority of the those videos will feature flipping. I'd guess if you go through youTube and the quality was good enough and you froze at impact, most of those videos will feature a flip.

I've had fellow players who said, "I don't flip". I video them, show them the flip. I don't mean to be mean, but to get better, you have to see what you're doing wrong.

[steelernation]

I tend to hit down on 51 wedge and up, the rest are probably flips unless its a greedside lob wedge.

[Jay-Bird]

Several. I couldn't vote for a no. 1, so I chose 'other'.

I think the variables are too vast. There are too many different styles of high handicapper.

Improper weight shift + overswinging go hand in hand. And they are the plague of the athletic, macho, good-at-other sports high handicappers.
Poor machanics (including stance, takeaway, swing) are the bane of the newbie.
For the guys that play a lot, but still have high handicaps it is just general inconsistencies. Bad holes, bad course management, penalties, bad short game (including putting).

[Shanks A Million]

Here's the thing: almost nobody is a bogey golfer or worse because of "course management." They're all high handicappers because they hit the ball badly. They hit it fat, thin, slice it 40 yards, etc.

Exactly, I try to beat this point into people. If You bottom out in front of the ball, like,

well in front, you are going to play good golf, goor or bad decisions. Phil Mickelson makes nothing but stupid decisions, and I can tell you, he's broken 80 a few times. Do his bad decisions cost him strokes? Sometimes, but it's costing him a stroke or two to win a major, not 15 strokes to shoot 90. As for setup, grip, etc? Bulls%$&. I can randomly walk up to a ball and smash it so long as I keep the clubshaft on plane, and leaning forward. I can hit it crosshanded, upside down, inside out, who really cares? The ball doesn't know what you do, just what hits it. Hell, Josh Broadway plays friggin crosshanded. Part of the reason many of you doubt me, iacas, and many other well informed sources on this subject is because you don't really understand what hitting it well means. I play with several + handicappers who occasionally play on tours (champions, nationwide, Asian, and PGA). You really don't have any idea what hitting it well is until you've seen them. They strike one after the other, right down the center, right on target. They rarely miss the center of the clubface, and even under the most intense pressure still hit the ball solid. What you think of as a solid hit, they would throw a club over. Hell, I can't measure the number of times someone's seen me hit a ball and said, "oh, you really hit that well" when I was about to snap the club in half. I'm progressing downward slowly, but even at my level my mishits go well enough for higher handicappers to refer to them as "great" shots. That's perception for you. I can't imagine how my shots would feel to a tour pro.

I never understood flipping. It's totall counterintuitive. Unless you're playing a sport the heavy end of the stick is in your hands (e.g. billiards) you always want to lead with your hand(s). Anything else seems ridiculous. Even a flop shot doesn't need to have the clubhead lead. How f***ing bad are people at sports in general to not be able to figure that out themselves?

See, you're really barking up the wrong tree here. First of all,

you flip the club. You make a lot of assumptions that you play the game so well, but the fact of the matter is, you're a 7 handicap and you were a 10 a few months ago. I'm around the same level, and I flip the club. If we didn't, we'd be scratch golfers. The difference between me and a 20 handicap, I flip it after impact, so my bottom is about 4" in front of the ball. A higher handicap's bottom is likely behind the ball. But even I flip the club. A pro golfer will not let the club cross his hands till well, well after impact, more than a foot, perhaps 18" or more. The problem is just how few people realize they do it. It's amazing how many people you tell they're flipping, and they say, "no, that's not it, maybe it's the left knee doing..." NO! You're flipping. Human nature makes us flip the club, it's perfectly natural. To break that habit is what takes time. As someone said, if you took 100 beginners, 100 of them would flip the club. If you took a thousand, one thousand would flip the club. If you took a million, 999,999 would flip the club. For someone to not flip the club is very, very rare. I've seen hundreds of swings posted here and at swing academy, and there's been a few who didn't flip... They were all scratch or better.

I tend to hit down on 51 wedge and up, the rest are probably flips unless its a greedside lob wedge.

You likely flip at every club, no matter what it is. Most people do. I flip too soon after impact the exact same with every club, from driver to lob wedge, and even the putter sometimes.

my last round went like this

Bold are my annotations. That's 7 holes ruined by bad shots. Now all you experts find where he could have saved all those strokes with good course management.

[sean_miller]

See, you're really barking up the wrong tree here. First of all,

Did I flip in a swing video I posted? Can you post one of those frame by frames with the lines? I want to improve.

[nevets88]

The problem is just how few people realize they do it. It's amazing how many people you tell they're flipping, and they say, "no, that's not it, maybe it's the left knee doing..." NO! You're flipping. Human nature makes us flip the club, it's perfectly natural. To break that habit is what takes time. As someone said, if you took 100 beginners, 100 of them would flip the club. If you took a thousand, one thousand would flip the club. If you took a million, 999,999 would flip the club. For someone to not flip the club is very, very rare. I've seen hundreds of swings posted here and at swing academy, and there's been a few who didn't flip... They were all scratch or better.

Totally agree.

Someone should put a camera on the first tee at a major muni and track the percentages of flippers. It will be wayyyy up there. I wish way back when I started playing, instructors flat out told me this. Would have saved me much time. They spend so much time trying to convey what they feel, the correct motions, they didn't say - this is the end result. Now lets see what we can do to fit it.

[steelernation]

You likely flip at every club, no matter what it is. Most people do. I flip too soon after impact the exact same with every club, from driver to lob wedge, and even the putter sometimes.



Bold are my annotations. That's 7 holes ruined by bad shots. Now all you experts find where he could have saved all those strokes with good course management.[/QUOTE]

I know my swing on the shots from 150 out to 40 in, thats the area in which I tend to recover from the bad ballstriking you mentioned. I know those mishits are bad mechanics causing the bad striking. Once I get in the range above, I use a different swing and the bottom of swing is 5 inches in front of ball and 2 to 3 inches deep(divots) I see and feel every swing going down on the ball, I cant use that same plane on a 8 iron or even a 9iron I havent practiced enough.

My recent fix was an attempt at course management, tee off with a 6iron. I get 180 to 210 as opposed to an unknown with a driver

(I did this on 1, 2,6,7,8,9) Its still bad ballstriking but Im using course management to get in my comfort zone of 150 (1hole was just tight swing I hadnt swung in 2 weeks, 2 was dead on, 5 needs a 220 carry over hazard-course management cant help me, 6 worked perfectly, 7 was a mishit ballstriking, 8 ballstriking, 9 ballstriking) Its a band aid fix. The only way to make it fool proof is to tee off with a pitching wedge and hit the ball 160 yards up the hole, but that wont bring my score down that much. I think the fact that I shot 46 last night on the front nine is a huge testament to my short game. No 3 putts, I had 14 putts because I was either just off the green in 2 and chipping dead on with a 1 putt or just managing a steady 2 putt, but when your getting on in 1 over GIR or 3 over GIR your still screwed. You have to get on in 2 to have a fighting chance at a 9HC so it goes back to ballstriking, remember a 3 putt after a GIR is still bogey, but at least you cant end up in a hazard(or shouldnt) while on the green.

[TopMostOfEm]

I wish way back when I started playing, instructors flat out told me this. Would have saved me much time. They spend so much time trying to convey what they feel, the correct motions, they didn't say - this is the end result. Now lets see what we can do to fit it.

I told my wife last night that... After about 1000 completely wrong swings, a few nights on this forum and I've turned a corner towards getting it right. Funny thing is, once I learned the position of my body relative to impact and decided to attempt to create that condition, I found myself having to do exactly all the things my instructor has been telling me.

If they would simply show the desired result first, we could all save a lot of time, money, and wear & tear on our bodies.... Sigh...

[Brakkus]

I have to go with ballstriking.This is directly linked to your overall mechanics.I agree short game and course management only come into play when you can hit it solidly.I've played by going for it and playing smart but I still score the same why?It's because I don't hit it well enough most of the time.
Due to a rotator cuff injury I had to stop playing,haven't been near a course in 6 months and don't intend to go back this year at all.I'm now able to hit balls again after strengthening it again.It's all in the contact and if never fix the mishits you will likely still score 100-110 while you repeat the same things in your swing.Understanding the plane of your swing,set-up,tempo,balance are the building blocks.
When you get out to the course mechanics breakdown because they are not grooved and especially when you get tired if you are a high capper,then it's fat and thin city.To stop the rot you have to open your mind and learn.Then it's a an approach of how to build a swing that works for you.This may involve a coach,if not then video helps and relying on your body awareness so you can feel the difference between a solid strike and a poor one.

Oh Yeah and lots of hard work and practice.

[Zeph]

Did I flip in a swing video I posted? Can you post one of those frame by frames with the lines? I want to improve.

Where is your swing?