Charley Hoffman's Winning Draw

[iacas]

Notice the clubface at the end of the video, and notice how Charley hits this draw with an almost vertical hinging motion...



Look at that clubface! It's pointing almost to the sky. It's not "toe up" at all - it's closer to "toe horizontal" than "toe up." Beautiful!

a) handle forward
b) weight forward
c) no "release"
d) maintains right forearm flying wedge

Notice there is no:
a) weight behind the ball to draw it
b) "release" of the clubface/clubhead
c) "rolling" of any wrists
d) "closed" clubface to draw it

[soloredd]

Damn, they get the ball so high.

[bwdial]

I hate to think of the damage I've done over the years by trying to release (flip) my hands. It's been a struggle, but I'm beginning to turn the corner with my ball striking and am slowly getting the trajectory and distance that I want by applying these principles.

[CalBoomer]

What does it say that you are using Charlie Hoffman's swing as an example of almost perfect form? A guy who had previously won one professional tournament. It says to me that the ranks of professional golfers are full of extremely talented guys who can beat anybody if they can keep it all together for four days.

[TourSpoon]

Check out the old skool footwork...fabulous extension...you've got to love someone who can hit the shots.

[iacas]

What does it say that you are using Charlie Hoffman's swing as an example of almost perfect form?

Let's be clear now - this is one particular shot of several this year. I guarantee he didn't look the same way when he push-faded some of those drivers into the trees and cart paths even earlier in the same round.

Furthermore, this shot was used simply to show some components which contradict what many believe you should do to hit a draw. Where was Johnny saying "look at how he supinates and rolls his knuckles down to close the clubface?" You didn't hear it even though he hit an obvious draw with the clubface still pointing to the sky well into the follow-through.

[Zeph]

Wish I had that follow through with the clubface pointing up, I'm really rotating it over through impact. Oh well, it will come in time.

[Deryck Griffith]

Notice the clubface at the end of the video, and notice how Charley hits this draw with an almost vertical hinging motion...

Absolutely beautiful...

[newtogolf]

Great analysis, thanks. It's frustrating seeing all these great players swings and shaping their shots while I struggle just to get the ball to go straight.

[nevets88]

Yeah, I bought Miller's video a long time ago and for a long time, hit draws using my hands to close the face.

It wasn't until I tried Stack and Tilt or at least the weight forward shoulders down hands deep part (WFSDHD) that I started hitting draws without manipulating my hands to close the face. I couldn't believe it at first and some of the "draws" turned 10-20 yards.

On the flip side, if I hold the hands tight, I hit low fades, slices that don't fly high at the end. That's a ball flight I never saw before either without hitting it thin.

Miller did a cool thing in one of those videos though, he hit a 5 wood with his left hand only to emphasize the left side and it was a pretty solid looking golf shot. It'll be awhile before I can do that.

[iacas]

Great analysis, thanks. It's frustrating seeing all these great players swings and shaping their shots while I struggle just to get the ball to go straight.

Trying to hit the ball straight is not something I'd advise. With any curve at all, the ball will ALWAYS be working AWAY from the target. Pick a shot shape you like and narrow the cone as much as you can...

Additionally, 95% or so of the shots a player hits on the PGA Tour are the same general shape. They're not shaping every shot differently. They might alter the trajectory a bit here and there, but if the guy's a fader, he fades 95% of his shots. If he draws, he draws 95% of his shots. It's much easier to know where the ball's going. They might draw the driver and fade everything else, or vice versa, but with any club they hit the same shot shape 95% of the time.

[ERdiesel]

Hi Iacas, would you have an idea of the % of pga pros who draw the ball vs fade it? Based on my limited google research it seemed as if fading was a more preferred shot shape by the pros since it was easier to control than a draw? but wondering if it was close or the pros overwhelming go with one vs the other. Just curious, thanks.

[sean_miller]

Nice - that was the swing I was thinking of when I referred to Charlie [sic] Hoffman in another thread. I love that swing and that specific shot - including the abbreviated followthrough - a gutsy shot to a tight pin. Money.

Ps. I tend to mute NBC swing analysis.

[iacas]

Hi Iacas, would you have an idea of the % of pga pros who draw the ball vs fade it? Based on my limited google research it seemed as if fading was a more preferred shot shape by the pros since it was easier to control than a draw? but wondering if it was close or the pros overwhelming go with one vs the other. Just curious, thanks.

I never really understood the "easier to control" thing. And fades don't necessarily go higher or land softer, either.

No idea. It's probably close to 50/50, and I'd guess that 20-30% of PGA Tour players play a different shape with their driver than with their irons. Maybe someone else has the actual numbers.

Ps. I tend to mute NBC swing analysis.

Wise move. I wish we could get on-course mics only. I'd love to watch golf hearing nothing but player/caddie conversations, the crowd, the ball contact, etc. Show me the lie, tell me the yardage, and maybe show me a shot of the green to remind me what he faces.

But that's a topic for another thread, eh?

[RC]

This particular swing is simply beautiful. I love his arms past impact. He did a lot of things right to get into that position in the early post impact position. The is the form of release that I refer to as the Nicklaus release because it was Jack that talked about release being evident past impact with the extended arms, and he said nothing at all about rolling over being part of release. You don't see any hint of the right hand trying to flip over the left and the right elbow folding early, which does happen in the "roll-over" misnomer of release (and what I think is the incorrect version of "release." Release is when you can let it all go as a result of body mechanics, and totally unrelated to the hands, except in terms of how they react to what has come before from the body. He does not hit every shot this way, and you can see how he was making a swing to hit a draw that would not snap hook, yet he released his arms to avoid the push because he was in position to do that as consequence of earlier sequencing. Poetry. I am glad this topic and the images were posted -- thank you.

N.B: If he had been going for a straight shot, his same extended arms and the club would have been bit more left, which proves to me he hit a purposeful push draw, a swing out, open face draw just as Erik describes from the ball flight rules.

[TheGeekGolfer]

While I agree with alot said in this posting, if you stop the video at 1:01 (or close), after he has struck the ball and the club is just past impact (it disappears a bit in his left shin), it appears that the club does 'release'. After this point it actually looks like he's 'holding the clubface' open a bit... maybe to subconsciously avoid 'overdrawing' the ball and going into the hazard???

Anyway, I could be wrong...I'm not as experienced at analyzing these videos, just my observation.

[sean_miller]

While I agree with alot said in this posting, if you stop the video at 1:01 (or close), after he has struck the ball and the club is just past impact (it disappears a bit in his left shin), it appears that the club does 'release'. After this point it actually looks like he's 'holding the clubface' open a bit... maybe to subconsciously avoid 'overdrawing' the ball and going into the hazard???

That might be why "release" is in quotation marks. It's not the rolling your wrists or dumping a bucket of water or to some extent, hitting a forehand with topspin, that you see in GD every month.

[sara]

I tend to swing like that. It is most noticeable with the driver, I end up with the clubface looking up at the sky. My instructor has been trying to rid me of that for a while now and I've been working on "releasing" the club.