Even been disappointed with a round at a nice course?

[Fat Slice]

I have been waiting to play Pasatiempo, having read about it and having heard great things from some other players. I got my chance to play yesterday and didn't get to enjoy myself, sadly.

We get there for our tee time and there is a construction company tournament starting at the same time: shotgun, 4-person scramble. The clubhouse has the tournament starting on holes 2-12 and left the tee open to send out unaffiliated groups. What they should have done was start the tournament on, say, holes 5-15, leaving a gap that would surely be closed. They'd be able to send out 4 groups in front of the tournament. But...no....they were greedy and wanted to leave room for 7 groups.

The result was a six hour round, watching painfully as beer-addled hackers scrambled to see which of the four balls hit into the woods on a par-3 would be the right one to play. Ever see a foursome scramble their way to a 3-putt? I saw it several times yesterday.

I wanted to like that course, but the six hour round, waiting every shot, waiting every tee box....was just too much.

Boo on you, Pasatiempo.

As for the course itself, I don't see the attraction. Lots of houses, fences, and nets. There are too many ratty looking large waste areas and a few tricked up greens. The condition of the tee boxes, fairways, and greens was superb, however.

If I had the chance to play it again for free, or play Bayonet or even Poppy Hills, I'd skip Pasatiempo.

[iacas]

I hate slow play as much as everyone, but given the choice between a three-hour round and a six-hour round at a gorgeous, famous, sea-side golf course, I wouldn't be in a rush, I can tell you that.

I'd much rather say "It took a bit too long" than "It was over before I knew it."

[Fat Slice]

I am surprised someone who has played there would make that claim. Really, it's not gorgeous, especially when compared to what is in the area, and it's definitely NOT seaside - the closest hole is 2 1/2 miles to the bay and you're not treated to any spectaclar views like you would get at Pebble, Spyglass, or even the Pacific Grove Muni. Even disregarding slow play, this is a an overrated/overhyped course. Sure, it has the panache of a MacKenzie course, but that's like saying The Two Gentlemen of Verona is a great play because Shakespeare wrote it.

The Hollins House restaurant/bar, however, is very good and surprisingly reasonable.

[iacas]

I am surprised someone who has played there

I haven't played there.

Really, it's not gorgeous

Eh?

http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/photos_panoramas.php

it's definitely NOT seaside

Okay, you got me on that one, I thought it was closer to a bay or ocean or afforded views of them.

Even disregarding slow play, this is a an overrated/overhyped course. Sure, it has the panache of a MacKenzie course, but that's like saying The Two Gentlemen of Verona is a great play because Shakespeare wrote it.

I don't think you're quite the student of architecture that some others are, and perhaps a lot of the meaning or enjoyment is lost (or wasted) on you. You do realize it's not just a "MacKenzie course" but where he made his home, too, like Ross at Pinehurst, right?

http://www.montereygolf.com/course-r...terey-golf.htm http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/restore/ Still looks nice to me. To answer your original question, no. Perhaps you over-estimated things before going, though.

[MJP]

I hate slow play as much as everyone, but given the choice between a three-hour round and a six-hour round at a gorgeous, famous, sea-side golf course, I wouldn't be in a rush, I can tell you that.

I don't agree with that Iacas. That's simply because I suck when I have to wait 10 minutes on a tee box. I'd rather play a short, successful (++ to fun factor), low stress round. Besides, I play fairly slow anyways. If I'm in a two some and a 6500+ course don't expect us to finish in under 4 hours. The marshal tried to move us along twice last Friday when I played at The Home Course in WA, but I am not going to start not reading putts and going through my normal routine just to catch up to the obviously too speedy group in front of me. What I won't do, however, is make the group behind me have to wait on the tee for more than 2 minutes. Because I know how much I hate that and how that slows down play. If you haven't hit the ball within 2 minutes of the green clearing you just weren't preparing for the shot while waiting for the green to clear.

[golfro]

I don't agree with that Iacas. That's simply because I suck when I have to wait 10 minutes on a tee box. I'd rather play a short, successful (++ to fun factor), low stress round. Besides, I play fairly slow anyways. If I'm in a two some and a 6500+ course don't expect us to finish in under 4 hours. The marshal tried to move us along twice last Friday when I played at The Home Course in WA, but I am not going to start not reading putts and going through my normal routine just to catch up to the obviously too speedy group in front of me. What I won't do, however, is make the group behind me have to wait on the tee for more than 2 minutes. Because I know how much I hate that and how that slows down play. If you haven't hit the ball within 2 minutes of the group behind you arriving to the tee, the group in front of you is either still on the green or you just weren't preparing for the shot while waiting for the green to clear.

I'll take a slow round with people I like playing with over a fast round any day.

PS: I was recently dissapointed by how not-very-fun Trophy Lake in WA was...after all th rave reviews I read, I expected something different. Its a great course as far as maintenance and overall looks go... but the course layout just wasn't all that interesting to me. I'll take Druid's Glen at half the price over Trophy Lake any day of the week! with that in mind...i have yet to play Home Course.

[Yukari]

I have said it over and over...
Pasatiempo is NOT a great course! I don't know why people think it is. I played there and would NEVER pay that kind of money to play there again. There are a lot better courses in Northern Cal that cost a lot less, e.g., San Juan Oaks, Cinnabar, Poppy Ridge (in Livermore not Poppy Hills in Pebble Beach), etc.

Granted it is an Alister McKinzie (sp?) designed course--I think. But no appear what so ever. It is your typical muni course with inflated price.

[iacas]

I don't agree with that Iacas. That's simply because I suck when I have to wait 10 minutes on a tee box.

Find ways not to suck when the thing is slow.

Again, I hate slow play as much as anyone, and wish golf took four hours maximum, BUT sometimes you've gotta make lemonade out of lemons, and I think there's too much making lemons out of lemonade here (I know that's not possible, but I think y'all get what I mean). They weren't going anywhere and were playing a great golf course. Complaining about how long it took just strikes me as a bit gauche.

I have said it over and over...

Perhaps they (perhaps correctly) see things about the course which you do not see or understand.

This thread isn't about how good or great or crappy the course is. The OP says "nice course" and complains primarily about pace of play while complimenting the condition of the course. Based on the opinions of people I trust, I'll not hesitate should I have the chance to play it. But I'm also a bit more of a design geek than average.

[Zeph]

I adjust the speed of my game to whoever is in front or behind me. If I know the course is crowded and letting us through is not an option, I slow things down, take my time and enjoy the round. I don't like playing speed golf, but I like to have a tempo when playing.

Waiting on the tee all the time can be boring, if I can't play through, I'll chip around the tee area. I'll also do my best to play at the same pace as those ahead of me, so my round will flow better.

I really don't get the question in this topic. What has slow play got to do with the quality of the course? Surely slow play affect your round, but that's not the course's fault.

[ohiolefty]

First off, I'm dissapointed with most of the rounds of golf I play. I mean, it's golf. If we did it the way we wanted to, we'd be on television and having affairs with 17 different slores, right?!?!?


As far as pace of play goes - I'd rather have a 6 hour round at somewhere nice than 3 hours and change at a dump.

My only real "bad experience at a good place" rounds have came on places where staff, rangers or other patrons were a-holes to me. I had a starter say something crappy to me at one of Cleveland's nicer courses because I didn't see a 'no chipping' sign and was chipping on putting-only green. No big deal, right? But the guy got a little out of control with me, I let him know he was out of line and, as a result, I was pretty irritated the first few holes and d*cked up my score to the point where the round was experientially ruined for me as well. I blame myself for how I reacted. Still, the only thing that can ruin (for me) a round at a great place is someone being an a-hole. Pace of play is out of my control. I get mad about it at my home course I play 4-5 times a week, but at a 'special' place where I payed a significant amount of money, there's nothing I can do.

[bwdial]

Pretty much all I ever play are goat tracks and dumps next to a landfill, so in a word... no.

[GaijinGolfer]

I recently played what is considered by many to be one of the nicest courses in my area (Coachman's in Stoughton, WI). All my life Id heard people talk about what a great, ritzy course it is but I honestly found it to be kind of ghetto.
Everything was just so old and in need of maintenance and the course simply wasnt in as good of shape as a lot of other, less expensive courses Ive played. For $50, I could think of many much better courses I could play.

[jamo]

I've played supposedly nice courses that didn't have the architectural merit that I thought they were, but they usually have so many nice amenities and great conditions that I sort of overlook it.

[alo1984]

Sure have. Recently posted a thread about it

[MJP]

Never played Trophy Lake (heard of it) but yeah, Druid's Glen is an amazing course. A very tough challenge from the tips too. The tips are only 7100, but rated 75.1/144! Quite a challenge for being so short. I expect a course rated like that to be more like 7400. I love the view of Mt. Rainer it really adds to the whole experience. The only thing I dislike is how wet the course is all the time. Last time I played it was in July but it was still very wet. I think they over water it.

[golfro]

Never played Trophy Lake (heard of it) but yeah, Druid's Glen is an amazing course. A very tough challenge from the tips too. The tips are only 7100, but rated 75.1/144! Quite a challenge for being so short. I expect a course rated like that to be more like 7400. I love the view of Mt. Rainer it really adds to the whole experience. The only thing I dislike is how wet the course is all the time. Last time I played it was in July but it was still very wet. I think they over water it.

Yeah I hear you on the wetness. When I played it was still fairly muddy on certain spots. This was back in august. The course in itself i think sits somewhat low so I've notieced that the air is very humid on the course. Also doesn't help that the course has a body of water on like every hole.

But yeah I played from the tips and ended up shooting 83 there. Lots of challenging holes, tight fairways and a ton of water. I love the greens there though. When I played it was in the best condition of all the courses I played this season. Apparently rated #4 hardest course in WA according to the marshal I talked to.

[Fat Slice]

I don't think you're quite the student of architecture that some others are, and perhaps a lot of the meaning or enjoyment is lost (or wasted) on you. You do realize it's not just a "MacKenzie course" but where he made his home, too, like Ross at Pinehurst, right?

Yeah I knew all that, I read about Pasatiempo a bit in "The Match" - MacKenzie's ashes were spread on the fairways. His house is off the sixth fairway. His original design was changed, then changed back when old photos surfaced. A big part of why I played it was for the history/architecture. The genius of the design is mostly enjoyed from the back tees. Playing the middle tees (where my handicap suggests I play), the tee shots aren't so strategically challenging - I just needed to make solid contact. Play from that point on, however, was the same (obviously). There will always be someone more learned than you, but that can't and shouldn't stop your attempt to enjoy something - which is what I did...I attempted to enjoy the course.

To answer your original question, no. Perhaps you over-estimated things before going, though.

Perhaps, which is why I arranged another tee time. Just like a restaurant, you can't just it on one meal.

[MJP]

Yeah I hear you on the wetness. When I played it was still fairly muddy on certain spots. This was back in august. The course in itself i think sits somewhat low so I've notieced that the air is very humid on the course. Also doesn't help that the course has a body of water on like every hole.

#4??? Second only to Sahalee and Chambers Bay I'm sure. The Plateau Club (5 miles from Sahalee) has a slope of over 150. That could be the 3rd hardest.

No doubt it's in great condition though. I need to get out to Chambers Bay and China Creek since I've never played them but I don't think that will be happening this year. Ever play Gold Mountain? I absolutely love that course as well.