I thought it was christmas!

[alo1984]

Last post I'll make in this thread. It's not about being high and mighty, it's about basic ethics. The range rents buckets of balls, if you take a ball out and keep it, it's stealing. When I go bowling I use "house balls" which are sometimes marked house balls and other times just regular balls donated or left behind by patrons. Using the same analogy I should feel free to take any ball that's not marked as a house ball home with me if I want to.

C'mon man, it's getting a little ridiculous to continue calling this theft. You never answered my questions:

Have you ever picked up a lost ball on a course? You're rationale would suggest that this is theft when in fact it is not. Have you ever played more than the amount of golf that you actually paid for? It is just too much for me to stomach that you really consider picking up that Penta theft. I really don't believe that's what you think. I actually think that you just don't want to back down now.

[golfro]

Last post I'll make in this thread. It's not about being high and mighty, it's about basic ethics. The range rents buckets of balls, if you take a ball out and keep it, it's stealing. When I go bowling I use "house balls" which are sometimes marked house balls and other times just regular balls donated or left behind by patrons. Using the same analogy I should feel free to take any ball that's not marked as a house ball home with me if I want to.

relax man... your response to the "cheating" thread awhile ago and now this? you need to relax a bit. lol

[newtogolf]

C'mon man, it's getting a little ridiculous to continue calling this theft. You never answered my questions:

No I've never taken a golf ball I found on the course, it's not that I'm so honest, just never had a reason to. I also view that different than taking a ball out of a bucket of balls I rented at a range. I haven't played that much golf, but to answer your question, no I've never played more than I paid for.

The definition of theft is: the generic term for all crimes in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use (including potential sale). I didn't create the definition, but I understand why my use of the term might make some feel uneasy. Would you prefer petty theft?

[newtogolf]

relax man... your response to the "cheating" thread awhile ago and now this? you need to relax a bit. lol

Sorry if my ethics make you uneasy.

[greenbull]

Okay, I confess also: I once took one rangeball with me. The reason? I was so disgusted with the bald rubbish balls I got (20 for 2 euro), that I wanted proof to show to other people. The ball I took has no more dimples wherever you look... Ballflight? What ballflight? And hard as a rock! With a thing like that, you can expect to hit a dent in your club-face... I always carry it in my bag. Since that ball was written off some 30 years ago, I didn't feel a bit guilty. On the contrary, I believe the management from that course is stealing people's money by charging for that junk.

[golfro]

No I've never taken a golf ball I found on the course, it's not that I'm so honest, just never had a reason to. I also view that different than taking a ball out of a bucket of balls I rented at a range. I haven't played that much golf, but to answer your question, no I've never played more than I paid for.

In the case of theft, the crime would ONLY be a crime if the victim (the range) poses it to be a theft due to loss in ownership of object or profit, etc. Since the Penta ball originally did not belong in the bucket, no cost went into the range in putting the Penta ball there. Therefore, the range loses absolutely nothing and really, the ball was never theirs to begin with...so by your logic, you can say the range is actively comitting theft by taking the balls that hackers hit into the range.

So no, its not a crime. its not theft nor petty theft. Its what someone who is tightly wound would call "unethical" which is moot anyway.

[newtogolf]

In the case of theft, the crime would ONLY be a crime if the victim (the range) poses it to be a theft due to loss in ownership of object or profit, etc. Since the Penta ball originally did not belong in the bucket, no cost went into the range in putting the Penta ball there. Therefore, the range loses absolutely nothing and really, the ball was never theirs to begin with...so by your logic, you can say the range is actively comitting theft by taking the balls that hackers hit into the range.

You can't be this slow....the range might have stolen the ball, taken it mistakenly or found it, we can't determine that. What we can determine is it didn't belong to the guy that pocketed the ball, which makes it theft.

Next time I go to the range, I'll ask the owner of the range his opinion, somehow I doubt he will see it the same way you do. But we'll just say he's tightly wound too. I'm done commenting on the topic....you're right everyone should just pocket balls they rent from the range...

[golfro]

You can't be this slow....the range might have stolen the ball, taken it mistakenly or found it, we can't determine that. What we can determine is it didn't belong to the guy that pocketed the ball, which makes it theft.

Funny. I would assume the owner would say the exact opposite. I don't think they'd give a rats ass if someone pocketed a non-range ball. iacas who is an instructor at a range already stated that if its not a range ball, he would have absolutely no qualms about it.

[motteler621]

i took nike one platinum out of a range bucket a month or so ago. I played some really good golf with that ball and got me liking nike balls alot.

[bigoak]

I don't understand the connection between taking something that you clearly did not earn and Christmas. Christmas is a season with giving presents and accepting presents that were selected for you. You mean that your Christmas involves taking something because it doesn't belong there and therefore it must be yours. The amazing part of this thread is the rationalization and the me me me me me me me people. I found it, it must be mine. I keep found balls and give them to the " First Tee" not because I am a martyr. I just believe that a lost ball has bad luck connected with it and I don't want it to rub off on me.

[wrx_junki]

I think I had loads of bad karma coming my way. I used to always keep the decent balls that I find in the bucket. Now I just save them to use at the range before I tee off. To me its like finding a golf balls on the course. I've never thought of this as stealing.

[jetsknicks1]

No I've never taken a golf ball I found on the course, it's not that I'm so honest, just never had a reason to. I also view that different than taking a ball out of a bucket of balls I rented at a range. I haven't played that much golf, but to answer your question, no I've never played more than I paid for.

Using this definition, the course itself is guilty of theft by taking a ball they clearly didn't purchase, and then profiting off it's rental. Do you call the police or accuse the course staff of stealing when you find a non range ball in the bucket?

[Dartguy]

You know, guys, theft is a very "fireable" offense in any workplace. Do you guys think the pro would fire one of the workers for pulling out a good golf ball from the range balls? Hell no!! Impossible!

If a ball is lost on a course, no matter where it is lost, it becomes free game to whomever may find it. (as long as they are not still looking for it). It becomes abandoned. Are you really trying to tell us that you would not pick up a ball you find in the woods/weeds, etc.?

If I lose a ball, I hope someone comes along and finds it later. Maybe they'll slice it into the woods, too. But that ball became up for grabs the moment I dropped another one.

I have never stolen anything, and I have never kept a range ball or a good ball in a bucket, but that's because I find more than I lose.

I also have never bought a golf ball. So I guess that's why I can't putt....Karma!

[Jell0b0y]

I have to say this should be nominated for thread of the year. All started by one golf ball being taken from a range bucket.

[ilikefishes]

Yes, this is very amusing. There are plenty of people on this board with experience in the golf business. I have more than 20 years of such and I can't think of a single instance where the OP's example is relevant to theft. There are some people that just always have to interject their values on others. The beauty of the information age!

[iacas]

The definition of theft is: the generic term for all crimes in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use (including potential sale).

This answer pretty much sums it up:

Using this definition, the course itself is guilty of theft by taking a ball they clearly didn't purchase, and then profiting off it's rental. Do you call the police or accuse the course staff of stealing when you find a non range ball in the bucket?

Also, what about this: what if you found a ball YOU had hit onto the range in your bucket. By your bizarre logic, ntg, the course has stolen from you twice: once in keeping your ball and renting it out goodness knows how many times prior to your recovery of it, and second in only giving you 49 rental balls to hit instead of the 50 for which you paid.

Next time I go to the range, I'll ask the owner of the range his opinion, somehow I doubt he will see it the same way you do. But we'll just say he's tightly wound too.

I asked the guy who own our range today what he thought. He said he doesn't care. They're not his balls. He said he'd have a problem with a guy taking range balls from the course to give to his kids, but if someone finds a ball they want, if anything that might encourage them to spend more money on range balls in the hopes that they find more balls they can use. He's not out any money - he got the $5 or whatever for the bucket of balls, has less balls to pick up and wash, and still has a satisfied customer.

[tristanhilton85]

I have to say this should be nominated for thread of the year. All started by one golf ball being taken from a range bucket.

Agreed... I find it very amusing that people seem to care this much. Taking a ball or two that aren't range balls isn't a big deal... and it isn't theft, stealing, unethical, or whatever some people here want to say. It's not the same as stealing a car in a parking lot or bagging a club that was left behind... I'm sure when newtogolf goes to ask the manager at the range what he thinks, he'll have no problem with him keeping a non-range ball. I don't think that taking one gives you bad luck or karma... but if you do, follow sean_millers advice and replace it with some other crappy ball from your bag.

It's so amazing to me that this is even an issue to anybody.

[alo1984]

No I've never taken a golf ball I found on the course, it's not that I'm so honest, just never had a reason to. I also view that different than taking a ball out of a bucket of balls I rented at a range. I haven't played that much golf, but to answer your question, no I've never played more than I paid for.

First, the key word here is FRAUDULENTLY. No one is suggesting that the we would pocket a ball and sneak off the range with our loot. in fact, I have already said that I would have no problem telling the range owner/operator what I had found.

Second, the idea of personal property is not applicable in this situation at all. The Penta was actually no one's property when the OP found it. (I think this is where you are confused) He found the Penta and understood that it was not a range ball, but actually a lost ball, and therefore it was available for him to keep as his own.

Sorry if my ethics make you uneasy.

To be frank, they do.

You can't be this slow....the range might have stolen the ball, taken it mistakenly or found it, we can't determine that. What we can determine is it didn't belong to the guy that pocketed the ball, which makes it theft.

Since, by your logic, the range may have actually stolen the ball or "taken it mistakenly", then perhaps the OP should have taken it upon himself to destroy the Penta, thus removing it from the twilight zone limbo of being passed amongst unscrupulous golfers, and furthermore, freeing the world of it's moral quandary.

I know you have said that you are done commenting on the topic, but I really do wish you would reconsider.