Tiger's Changes Taking Shape

[iacas]

In the last video of Tiger on the driving range in Australia that shortstop20 posted, it looks like his hands are getting deeper and he is "less stuck" than he was before and has more room for his hands through impact vs the out and around Haney swing. Would you agree with this Erik or is there still more improvement to be mde for him in your eyes in this area?

Yes, I would agree.

And believe me, I'm not trying to brag because I'm not even in a small group of people who understand the changes Tiger had to make, but I've been saying for over a year now - since the word "Foley" was first said even remotely close to the word "Tiger" - that Tiger needed to:

• Take his hands more in
• Turn his shoulders on a steeper angle *
• Keep his head centered more on the backswing
• Push forward longer on the downswing

He's doing all of those things (except the last - not a lot of change there, but at least since his head isn't back to start it's not continuing to go backwards, adding even more secondary axis tilt). I believe if you can find my first posts on this topic in this forum that you'll find that I've been saying these things. Tiger is taking his hands more in. I'd say he's 40% of the way there - he could probably do it a bit more, but he took them so far out with Haney that he might feel he's 80% there and, frankly, for him to play "good enough" he might be 80% of the way to where he'll end up. At least they're in somewhat - they're not OUT, UP, DOWN, and around. Tiger is turning his shoulders on a steeper pitch. * This move ties into the better hip and leg work, as well - you'll see his hips turning on a steeper angle and his right knee losing more of its flex to allow his hips to turn more and for his right hip to move up and back. Tiger is keeping his head more centered in the swing (largely a result of the shoulder steepness and his better leg work, but there's some extra extension and side tilting in there too that differentiate this move from the steeper shoulders). Tiger can push forward longer. He still springs up a bit early. He always has, though, so this might be another of the things that Foley simply doesn't worry about. Tiger can get back to winning if he does nothing but take his hands in, even the 40% (or 80%) that he's doing them now and with the better hip and knee work (those, too, tie into the hands in, since the hip has to get out of the way a bit more the more you take your hands in), so I think 2011 is a prime year for Tiger. He knows that winning will help to erase 2009/2010 and all that, and even if he does nothing but continue to lock in the stuff from the Ryder Cup and Aussie Masters, and trust it more and more, he'll be okay. He can continue to get better the more he keeps doing the things I've outlined, I feel, but he's going to be playing tournament golf so frankly it's more important that he's comfortable and trusting than that his swing is as good as it can be. After all, this is a guy that won majors with the Hank Haney swing... blech. Clearly the guy doesn't need to have a perfect swing to win. P.S. Tiger got "stuck" more with Hank than with Butch because he'd loop his arms out and up, lay the club off horribly, drop it down while he started spinning, and the club would get well under the plane and the plane line would get shooting so far right Tiger's only choices were to block the ball right (which he did more than anyone else in the game) or try to "save" it by timing the rolling of the clubface to hit a little draw, which would often result in a snap hook when not timed properly. You'd see his high right shoulder coming through impact as he tried desperately to square the face and/or shift the plane line back to the left a bit.

[Deryck Griffith]

Yes, I would agree.

This is all great insight and proves that even the mighty Tiger woods had many imperfections in his swing and shows that he is an incredible talent to still of won despite the clear chages he needed to make which we are all now seeing. While I know Foley refrains from saying that SnT influenced his teaching methods, we all know that SnT did indeed influence him and documenting these changes is a great feather in the cap for the SnT swing method which we hopefully have all learned, isn't as drastic as initially made out to be. Awesome stuff.

[shortstop20]

P.S. Tiger got "stuck" more with Hank than with Butch

Ironically, isn't that one of the reasons he went to Hank in the first place, to rid himself of being "stuck"?

[delav]

Love this thread by the way.

The past year has been a ton of fun rethinking what I used to believe as fundamental truths in the golf swing. Like Tiger, I too put way too much emphasis on the path of the clubhead rather than the hands, and I've been working on many of the things that Foley is working with Tiger on (as pointed out by erik above). Granted where Tiger was still great with a flawed swing, realizing all of this bad positions and the compensation needed for them has explained volumes in my own shot shape and consistency. Thank god for seeing the light.

I wish I would have put down the golf digest, left johnny miller on mute and tuned into this forum years ago.

[Arsenal8807]

I don't think I am the only one here but I really think Tiger will come back stronger with some of these changes. They are all for the better IMHO and he is making progress, just look at his scores.

I saw him hitting the ball a lot better than the beginning of all "that" happened. Watching him play the skins game after the Australian Open where I think he posted a very good round Sunday and made a good run, I thought he was getting back to where he used to be.

Only a matter of time before everything clicks and he posts consistent rounds.

[keiko]

Quite honestly, I doubt that anyone really cares about anything Tiger is doing. If he plays well next year, he will still not have alot of folks who care and if he plays poorly-like this year-he will have some sort of excuse.

Tiger needs to just go away, there are so many now who outplay him. He's like some old punch drunk prize fighter, the public needs to keep shoving him aside.

He's still got a ways to go, but this picture is telling.

[iacas]

Ironically, isn't that one of the reasons he went to Hank in the first place, to rid himself of being "stuck"?

Yep. And he believed he would solve it, said a few times that's why he went there, and yet then never fixed it... but I think pride kept him from admitting that he still didn't fix it.

I wish I would have put down the golf digest, left johnny miller on mute and tuned into this forum years ago.

We're glad to have you.

Quite honestly, I doubt that anyone really cares about anything Tiger is doing.

That's a pretty silly comment to make given, y'know, this thread and countless other ones that have talked about his swing changes. Duh.

But you're the, uhhhh, "guy" who tried to start a flame war with this thread , so...

Tiger needs to just go away, there are so many now who outplay him. He's like some old punch drunk prize fighter, the public needs to keep shoving him aside.

Uh... right. Pretty sure you'll find some people to take that bet. Guy's not even 35 yet (though will be in 2011).

[wrx_junki]

My backswing at the top is somewhat very similar to his conventional swing. Guess I don't have his abilities to overcome it. Back to the drawing board.

Keiko, I'm pretty sure A LOT of people will be watching for Tiger at Chevron. Don't get what you mean by him making excuses? Did he say that he had a poor year due to his personal issues? I usually hear him admit it straight out by saying he sucked or didn't execute.

[cbrian]

My favorite

[Stretch]

My favorite

May not be a good swing by his standards, but does make you realize how bloody hard he hits it.

Title says it's a pull, but looks more like a snap hook to me.

[mvmac]

This was put together by Frank Gasaway

Attachment 2576

[Chas]

Somehow I don't think keiko was expecting to be taken entirely seriously, tho' he was probably hoping for it.

I must say I'm finding all of this effort by TW to rebuild a winning swing to be pretty compelling stuff. 1) It shows beyond a doubt that he seriously means to beat the record and time is slowly but surely running out on him; 2) It shows that he realizes he can't get there without major repairs, which demonstrates a) honesty about his own limitations (which I think he has always had to some extent, based on candid interviews on bad days), and b) respect for the opposition.

And the opposition is growing, it is hungry and it is increasing confident of its chances in any match-up. Bit of an epic stuggle if you choose to look at it that way. I am no longer willing to place a bet but then again I'm not really the betting type.

It's good for the game of golf that he's doing it and showing signs of improvement, that much we can all agree on probably. To what extent if at all there are elements of S&T; etc etc is something to keep the talking heads busy - they got to talk about something all those hours, might as well be of a more technical nature.

Keiko: I probably won't rise and bite but feel free to caste a line in my direction ......

[jamo]

Tiger's new Sean Foley inside joke: http://twitter.com/TigerWoods/status/9711877365956608 (I'm guessing "steep" = shoulder turn and "deep" = hands)

Or at least I think it's about golf.

[delav]

Tiger's new Sean Foley inside joke:

Uhhhh... Colorado ski conditions?

[motteler621]

May not be a good swing by his standards, but does make you realize how bloody hard he hits it.

yea thats some serious aggressive swinging.

[iacas]

[delav]

Can't argue with that... The difference between this and one year ago is astounding. Tiger's swing looked very good today, aside from a few weird swings in the final few holes.

[srjorion]

Tiger's swing looked very good today, aside from a few weird swings in the final few holes.

I'm thinking that as he has more time to solidify his changes those few weird swings are going to be very few and far between. He'll be winning regularly again if that happens.