My Swing (iacas)

[Tiger90]

This is my opinion,

watching that video, you can see your swing path going back is a little flat, if it was on plane, your club angle would be at your shoulder, instead it is a little below.  SO, it looks as if you are going to hit a draw...and then the way you held your hands, it looks like your are holding your finish for a cut.  So im not really sure what the flight path of your ball would be....

I would try to make your swing not so flat, and maybe rotate more through your finish.  It is a lot harder to make solid contact with a flat swing, usually hit the ground first

[sk golf]

He does not need to increase his rate of closure, or "rotate his hands" to hit a draw.  For him to hit a proper draw the face just needs to be open to the target line, but closed to the path.

[iacas]

  Tiger90 said:

Originally Posted by Tiger90

This is my opinion,

Before you begin, here's the thing about opinions on this forum (I'm not going to say they're like backsides - everyone's got one): having an opinion is great. It's welcome, it's why we're here.

But the best opinions are the ones that have some sort of "backing" to them - some reason why you believe them that you can share with others. There's a world of difference between "In my opinion you need to do X, Y, and Z" and one that says "Do X, Y, and Z because of A, B, and C."

Let's proceed. :-)

  Tiger90 said:

Originally Posted by Tiger90

watching that video, you can see your swing path going back is a little flat, if it was on plane, your club angle would be at your shoulder, instead it is a little below.  SO, it looks as if you are going to hit a draw...and then the way you held your hands, it looks like your are holding your finish for a cut.  So im not really sure what the flight path of your ball would be....

We're on page six, so I'm not sure which video you're referring to. The most recent video is in post #70 (the shank video).

I don't think you and I would agree with our definitions of "on plane." That's as on plane a motion as I've ever made, in my opinion. The clubhead and my hands virtually never leave the plane line I'm trying to hit. At the top of my backswing my left arm plane and my shoulder plane are matched and my right shoulder is behind the arm so you can't see it.

I'm not hitting a cut shot in that video (it's a shank, again) - if it had hit the clubface the path would be to the right. Flight path? Push draw. Maybe a push. Again, if it wasn't a shank. :)

If you're referring to another video, please let me know which one.

  Tiger90 said:

Originally Posted by Tiger90

I would try to make your swing not so flat, and maybe rotate more through your finish.  It is a lot harder to make solid contact with a flat swing, usually hit the ground first

You're partly correct in that a flatter swing will have point of tangency issues and the clubhead arc will tend to be shallower through impact than a steeper swing. But, I can assure you that I don't have much trouble with contact.

  sk golf said:

Originally Posted by sk golf

He does not need to increase his rate of closure, or "rotate his hands" to hit a draw.  For him to hit a proper draw the face just needs to be open to the target line, but closed to the path.

Bingo #2 SK. Good work today. :-)

[mvmac]

  Tiger90 said:

Originally Posted by Tiger90

This is my opinion,

watching that video, you can see your swing path going back is a little flat, if it was on plane, your club angle would be at your shoulder, instead it is a little below.  SO, it looks as if you are going to hit a draw...and then the way you held your hands, it looks like your are holding your finish for a cut.  So im not really sure what the flight path of your ball would be....

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

I'm not hitting a cut shot in that video (it's a shank, again) - if it had hit the clubface the path would be to the right. Flight path? Push draw. Maybe a push. Again, if it wasn't a shank. :)

Again Tiger, please review the correct ball flight laws.  You're a smart guy but you've got to go beyond what Butch Harmon says, he's incorrect about the ball flight laws.  The face is a tool of projection and the ball curves away from the path.

My weight and handle location are exaggerated because it's a drill but I never roll the clubface and I'll draw it all day from here.  Impossible to cut these shots (unless I align my baseline left) because my path is so far out to the right.  I'm not swing out the right, handle being forward, weight forward hips forward to create axis tilt does that for me

[james_hirshfield]

Left - pull cut

Right - high push draw.

Most would say the golfer on the left hit the draw because he 'released' the club, but the opposite happened.

[sk golf]

  james_hirshfield said:

Originally Posted by james_hirshfield

Left - pull cut

Right - high push draw.

Most would say the golfer on the left hit the draw because he 'released' the club, but the opposite happened.

I like golfer on the right ;)

[iacas]

Oh boy. Here goes nothin'…

[Zeph]

That elbow thing is something I've worked on myself some years ago. My theory was that I got the right elbow so far behind me that it gave me a hard time getting it forward and down in time (along with the arms speed, hip spin etc.). It was part of my work on not letting the swing get too long. IIRC, I tried not letting my left arm get too far across the chest. Something worked, because it is shorter now. Still not perfect, but better. I belive I used Dave's 3 views video actually. Don't have too many videos from behind. What made you look at your elbow and amount of rotation? Just fidgeting with the swing as usual or related to some issues? Careful with your manly bits. :D

[Stretch]

Prospective student walks into GE and runs into Erik. I can see the conversation now:

"So, do you guys favor any particular training aids when you're working on people's swings?"

"Well, personally, I like repeatedly thump myself in the nuts with a hard rubber ball on the end of a metal rod."

"I'm ... going to think about it for a bit before signing up. I'll, uh, call you. Yeah."

[iacas]

  Zeph said:

Originally Posted by Zeph

What made you look at your elbow and amount of rotation? Just fidgeting with the swing as usual or related to some issues?

Well, my swing's always been a tad lower, and I've worried for a year or so about the proper amount of ascent. I have NO problem getting the club deep enough, but do so slightly improperly, so it all kind of mixes together. I'd get the club deep and not ascended enough by letting the right elbow get too far around my shirt seam, then I'd do that steepening of the shaft in transition to feel like the left arm got high enough, but with my right elbow too far behind me I'd have to work it around my rib cage a bit rather than getting it down in front.

I think we've got it now, though. If you think about the previous feeling it was quite similar: going pitchy really early in the backswing also prevented me from getting my right elbow back around the shirt seam, because just as it would want to I made the elbow go pitchy.

  Stretch said:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Prospective student walks into GE and runs into Erik. I can see the conversation now:

"So, do you guys favor any particular training aids when you're working on people's swings?"

"Well, personally, I like repeatedly thump myself in the nuts with a hard rubber ball on the end of a metal rod."

It's more of a firm foamy ball, Stretch.

[secondary]

Erik,

I work on this in a mirror, the keeping the right elbow in front of shirt seam, my feeling is that I have to go much more "walrus" than "war chant".  Almost just lift the right arm straight up to start the swing.  I can't actually hit balls yet, and this has NEVER seeped into my real swings, but I "feel" like that is a good path for someone who gets too deep.  Is there any of that feeling for you when you actually get into a good position at the top of your bs?

[iacas]

  secondary said:

Originally Posted by secondary

I work on this in a mirror, the keeping the right elbow in front of shirt seam, my feeling is that I have to go much more "walrus" than "war chant".  Almost just lift the right arm straight up to start the swing.  I can't actually hit balls yet, and this has NEVER seeped into my real swings, but I "feel" like that is a good path for someone who gets too deep.  Is there any of that feeling for you when you actually get into a good position at the top of your bs?

Walrus is side to side, war chant is up and down, so I'm a bit confused what you mean about "lift the right arm straight up" being "more walrus."

To be honest I think my swing is about 50/50 of both and they both start a bit later, around A2. A1 to A2 I'm starting the handle going inward and, ideally, loading #2 a bit more quickly. Then I do little else but go 50/50 between those with a little bit of #3 late, around A3.5. That's if I had to force some thoughts about war chant/walrus.

I get deep because I simply let the right elbow keep migrating. I've solved that by simply worrying about where the upper arm points or feeling my right shoulder staying more slumped forward and retracting my right shoulder blade less.

I suppose I don't like war chant/walrus because the right forearm is not the only problem going on. I've got some #2/#3 sequencing issues and some other stuff going on that complicate things a little.

[secondary]

No you are correct, I didn't proof read. My typing got dyslexic. What I meant was I have to feel like I am just picking up my right arm, or just folding it from the beginning of the bs to get it to look like that.  I can't actually ever do it in a real swing though.  I have WAY more problems going on than just that as well, just a oversimplified thought I was trying to drum up some support for.  Nothing is that easy.  Anyway, thanks for the posting updates on your swing, I think going back and looking at swing threads is my favorite part of tst.

[colin007]

in a couple of those pics i almost see a little of Dustin Johnson, obviously not with the hands as high as his, but higher for you than they have been, and what looks like almost an imperceptible left wrist bow at P4

[iacas]

  colin007 said:

Originally Posted by colin007

in a couple of those pics i almost see a little of Dustin Johnson, obviously not with the hands as high as his, but higher for you than they have been, and what looks like almost an imperceptible left wrist bow at P4

It's pretty flat. I'm going to play around with feeling a bit more dorsiflexion (cupping) at A4 (starting at A1.5 or so) in order to stop #3 from going so far around. That's why the club's laid off a little, and could be contributing to why the right elbow migrates around a bit.

Current feelings build upon the above images:

- Hinge club more quickly (helps elbow fold sooner too)

- Right upper arm pointed away from target at top of backswing, good extensor action

- Pitchy from A3.5 on (I rarely worry about this one - I'm just trying to peg the first two for now).

But no, not really too worried about the left wrist at A4. It's pretty flat. Slight cupping, I think, will help with not rolling #3 quite so hard though.

Good eye, though. It's definitely a piece I'm looking at as it will affect the right elbow trajectory.

[mvmac]

How'd the changes effect the numbers on Trackman?  I could almost see less down and smash factor going up.

[iacas]

  mvmac said:

Originally Posted by mvmac

How'd the changes effect the numbers on Trackman?  I could almost see less down and smash factor going up.

I don't know. I'd guess more down, less left. Why would you imagine less down? Arms were late coming down before, my man.

[mvmac]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

I don't know. I'd guess more down, less left. Why would you imagine less down? Arms were late coming down before, my man.

Yeah I see what your saying, saw that one pic of the clubhead close to being out at A6,

Anyway, I like the changes, might not look "perfect" at A4 but definitely on track.  Makes you hate the guys that line it up "naturally" we gotta work out butt off to get it decent