Unfair Treatment??? Or am I being too sensitive?

[BostonSully]

23 Y/O Here.

There are several courses I play regularly in southeastern MA and only one where we have consistent problems with favoritism from the rangers.

Very similar to example A of your's only on a consistent basis.

I show up with my 3 friends were all 21-25 y/o. Dress appropriately play multiple times a week and are capable of breaking 90 every now and then. Behind us shows up two 4somes of older women.

We pay and begin to walk up to the first tee which is wide open with no groups infront of us. The ranger pulls up and tells us to check if 10 is clear for us to start there instead. We ask if we can play this as last 3 times we've played from 10 to start. He insists, so we drive over and theres like 3 groups waiting there. From the back end of a company scramble :sigh:

We drive back and the Ranger has put both the groups on the first tee infront of us now.

It was so slow we barely got in 4 holes before leaving. But this isnt the only time this has happend the rangers here always seem to ask younger groups to wait and put a group of seniors who are lucky to hit the ball 40yds at best infront of them.

So we went in and complained  (no refund of course). Now we only go to this course on weeknights when nobody is there. But this is the only place it seems to happen and I do agree that some in the golf community are of the crotchety snickery grumpy "I hate the youngins" cast for sure and will prejudice against you because of your age.

[Aquaguru]

Wow these stories I'm hearing are unreal.  I can't believe some people act like this.  Golf is suppose to be relaxing and care free in my opinion.  What is there to upset about, you are GOLFING.  I'm 21 and have been playing 10 years and have never had anything like this happen before.  The course I play at with my buddies, who range from 8-15HC have never ran into trouble with any of the older population.  Most of the time the older golfers will wait to let us through because they know we are longer and play fast.  Our average time for 18 is 3 hours, almost on the dot everytime unless we get stuck.

I feel like woman get the hardest time out of anyone.  Everyone assumes they are all slow and can't play.  But I see the same out of men.  IMO who cares they are getting outside and doing something active I love to see the men and woman who are in there 80's out on the course I will always make a point in telling them that its good to see them out playing when they let us through.

As far as rangers go I have never ran into any trouble before.  Most of it is probably due to the fact that we always get the earliest tee time available.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by BostonSully

23 Y/O Here.

There are several courses I play regularly in southeastern MA and only one where we have consistent problems with favoritism from the rangers.

Very similar to example A of your's only on a consistent basis.

I show up with my 3 friends were all 21-25 y/o. Dress appropriately play multiple times a week and are capable of breaking 90 every now and then. Behind us shows up two 4somes of older women.

We pay and begin to walk up to the first tee which is wide open with no groups infront of us. The ranger pulls up and tells us to check if 10 is clear for us to start there instead. We ask if we can play this as last 3 times we've played from 10 to start. He insists, so we drive over and theres like 3 groups waiting there. From the back end of a company scramble :sigh:

We drive back and the Ranger has put both the groups on the first tee infront of us now.

It was so slow we barely got in 4 holes before leaving. But this isnt the only time this has happend the rangers here always seem to ask younger groups to wait and put a group of seniors who are lucky to hit the ball 40yds at best infront of them.

So we went in and complained  (no refund of course). Now we only go to this course on weeknights when nobody is there. But this is the only place it seems to happen and I do agree that some in the golf community are of the crotchety snickery grumpy "I hate the youngins" cast for sure and will prejudice against you because of your age.

Do you have a reservation, or are you just walking on?  Do the other groups have reservations?  They may have arranged ahead for that tee time.  A foursome trying to walk on to my home course during the season would be lucky to get on at all, even in the late afternoon.  We are usually booked up until after 6 PM every day.

[jamo]

I intend to write an article about it at some point (I really want it to be good, well-thought out, and thorough, so I'm taking my time), but I'm 18 and I get treated like absolute crap at golf courses all the time. I doesn't help that I look a decent amount younger than I am (I about 6 feet tall but I have a young-looking face), but the way I get treated sometimes would absolutely astound you. Especially at nicer courses, there is a common attitude that excludes younger golfers, even those of us who pay full adult price.

[ControlJunkie]

You guys have no idea how much it disgusts me to hear this. Unfotunately, I gotta tell you, it goes further than just the golf course. I've experienced (and still to this day experience it) stuff in the professional world that's equally as maddening. It's entirely too much to explain here, but I'm a young looking 30 years old and have the same stuff go on from time to time at work and have seen hints of it on the golf course. Unfortunately, there's no gentle way of handling it on the golf course, so my suggestion is to play somewhere else, and dont give these people the pleasure of taking your money. Man, I know it sucks majorly though, not only because you had a bad experience, but this is the type of crap that drives people away from the game big time.

[Jchuba03]

Originally Posted by jamo

I intend to write an article about it at some point (I really want it to be good, well-thought out, and thorough, so I'm taking my time), but I'm 18 and I get treated like absolute crap at golf courses all the time. I doesn't help that I look a decent amount younger than I am (I about 6 feet tall but I have a young-looking face), but the way I get treated sometimes would absolutely astound you. Especially at nicer courses, there is a common attitude that excludes younger golfers, even those of us who pay full adult price.

That would be pretty cool because by the sounds of it it happens alot more  often than people think. I also look alot younger than i am (probably could pass for a 15-16 year old,, but im 21). Also agree on the point about it happening at nicer courses. Me and my buddy went to a very nice course that we drove about 2 hours to get to, paid the full adult price green fee ($135), and you would not believe the looks we got from the staff and other players out on the course. Made us feel completely excluded and out of place. (and yes, we we're dressed right for the caliber of the  course lol).

[BostonSully]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Do you have a reservation, or are you just walking on?  Do the other groups have reservations?  They may have arranged ahead for that tee time.  A foursome trying to walk on to my home course during the season would be lucky to get on at all, even in the late afternoon.  We are usually booked up until after 6 PM every day.

Good point. But this course is a small 18 exec with that doesnt even take tee times except for on sat/sunday mornings. We only play here at night and will absolutely make a tee time and go to somewher nicer to play on the weekend.

I mean it was done quite on purpose because it took us aorund 10 minutes to drive back and fourth from the 10th to the 1st and when we got back the first lady from the first foursome had yet to even hit. We woul'dve been done allready probably as it was a 90yd par 3 to start. We waited around 45 minutes+ to tee off on the first hole that day because of this ranger.

I could just tell by his demeanor and body language towards us that he didnt even want us there for some reason. We've had Ranger blow airhorns at us here as we are finishing our putts on the 18th because its 5pm and they want to leave. But they ignored the group of elders on the 9th finishing up who werent even on the green yet.

[jlund]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

What you described was unfair treatment. Not sure what to do about it. You might talk to a lawyer, and see what needs to be done to document such events in the future. If it's a municipal golf course, you're not getting fair access to public accommodations.

Also, I see that your avatar contains the picture of an African-American male. If you all are of an ethnic minority, possibly you're being targeted because of this.

At any rate, talk to a lawyer and see if any systematic action is possible. Do so especially if a civil rights violation is at play.

I cannot believe that this thread got to 2 pages without someone replying to this post.

You sir, are everything that is wrong with this overly-litigious society that we live in.  Every golfer in the world that calls a muni his or her home has had more than a few bad days on the course, and the OP's examples are no worse than any other bad day story out there.

What you do is suck it up and move on... Not contact a lawyer to see if you can do something about it...  Jesus.

[Jchuba03]

Originally Posted by jlund

I cannot believe that this thread got to 2 pages without someone replying to this post.

You sir, are everything that is wrong with this overly-litigious society that we live in.  Every golfer in the world that calls a muni his or her home has had more than a few bad days on the course, and the OP's examples are no worse than any other bad day story out there.

What you do is suck it up and move on... Not contact a lawyer to see if you can do something about it...  Jesus.

Hahaha i read that post and just erased it from my memory. People like that who want to sue everyone over everything are what is wrong with the world, not to mention that it would take so much time and effort to do that over something so trivial. All I was trying to point out was the fact that people get treated unjustly because of there age. Not trying to sue a a local muni or anything lol.

[jlund]

Originally Posted by Jchuba03

Hahaha i read that post and just erased it from my memory. People like that who want to sue everyone over everything are what is wrong with the world, not to mention that it would take so much time and effort to do that over something so trivial. All I was trying to point out was the fact that people get treated unjustly because of there age. Not trying to sue a a local muni or anything lol.

That is great to hear.  Good for you.

I didn't even want to dive into his point that you may be being discriminated against based on your race because of his thoughts on the potential color of your skin due to an avatar on a golf forum...

[Jchuba03]

Originally Posted by jlund

That is great to hear.  Good for you.

I didn't even want to dive into his point that you may be being discriminated against based on your race because of his thoughts on the potential color of your skin due to an avatar on a golf forum...

Ino right i thought that was nuts. And for the record I am not african american I am caucasian. Just a big fan of happy gilmore haha...

[saevel25]

Quote:

Actually, dress does have alot to do with how golfers are perceived. If I'm at the course and I see a guy dressed in jean shorts with his shirt hanging out, I pretty much figure (right or wrong) he doesn't understand etiquitte. I also see alot of younger golfers with lots of tattoos on their arms and sometimes their necks. Please understand that this doesn't bother me and I don't know if you or anyone in your group has them, but for the older golfers/rangers, that might make them pay extra attention and cause them to look for something wrong. Either way, if you're keeping pace, raking traps, filling divots, etc, you shouldn't be hassled.

So basically if i am in front of you, i wear jeans and and don't tuck in my shirt, your assumming i don't know etiquitte on the golf course, thogh i have been playing golf for over 12 years. I was tought from my dad, day one, how to act on the golf course. How to play ready golf, how to conduct myself, knowing the rules.

Now, i would put all those stories as bad luck, and probably interacting with the wrong people at the wrong time. Some people are good friends with the ranger and have more pull, and some people will use that as an excuse to bully there way around the course. I know i play pretty fast, but if someone hits into me, i will slow down for the rest of the round. I do not get pushed around the course. If the ranger shows up, he should understand that if there is people infront of ya, there's no were to go.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by jlund

I cannot believe that this thread got to 2 pages without someone replying to this post.

You sir, are everything that is wrong with this overly-litigious society that we live in.  Every golfer in the world that calls a muni his or her home has had more than a few bad days on the course, and the OP's examples are no worse than any other bad day story out there.

What you do is suck it up and move on... Not contact a lawyer to see if you can do something about it...  Jesus.

I disagree. I wouldn't go so far as to call a lawyer or file a lawsuit, but if I'm being deliberately discriminated against just because I look young, I'm not going to take it. In addition, I know how to differentiate it from someone having a bad day. There is a difference, and it's usually pretty easy to tell. Also, I don't know if WUTiger was exactly talking about suing the course. He said " You might talk to a lawyer, and see what needs to be done to document such events in the future. " which is important to find out if the course has a history of that sort of conduct.

[golf4fun12]

Originally Posted by jetsknicks1

I do find that there seems to be a fairly large number of grumpy older/middle age guys on the course. They don't like kids/younger people or in some cases, women on the course. I'm 46 and there are a bunch of younger guys that play the muni course down the street because they can walk and it's pretty cheap. I've never had a problem with them goofing off on the course or hitting into me. People need to relax and be happy to see our game growing.

everyone gets grumpy. I didn't mean just older guys. but, on a golf course, it does seem that older people do tend to get more grumpy then younger guys. it is true. I saw it for 2 years working at a golf course.

[ghalfaire]

First I guess I have seen a lot of these thread--Old guy don't like young guys and are just naturally grumpy.  But I have yet to see a thread of old guys complaining about young people on the golf course (I mean 17-22 year old).  Now I haven't been on TST very long so maybe I just missed those threads.  You'd think there would be a preponderance of such threads if old guys are just grumpy, mean and prejudice against young men or maybe there are not any old men on TST, except me of course.

Well if everything was a the OP describes then the young men were certainly unfairly treated (three times in fact).  But since most golf courses don't have a wealth of paying customers these days I can't imagine one driving customers away by treating them badly.  So I'll admit the stories just don't "feel right" to me somehow and I suspect some selective perceptions are at work here.

Just as an aside, most rangers I know are retired people and work for just playing privileges to save a few bucks.  So they do tend to be older than the average golfers.  While I'm not 17 anymore I have found most all rangers to be pleasant and friendly in spite of the crap I have seen them subjected to at times.  Probably they just like other older grumpy people.

[Shindig]

I cannot believe that this thread got to 2 pages without someone replying to this post.

You sir, are everything that is wrong with this overly-litigious society that we live in.  Every golfer in the world that calls a muni his or her home has had more than a few bad days on the course, and the OP's examples are no worse than any other bad day story out there.

What you do is suck it up and move on... Not contact a lawyer to see if you can do something about it...  Jesus.

That depends on whether it's an isolated bad day or a pattern. If one person has a bad experience, you're right, you don't go to a lawyer unless something clearly discriminatory happened (e.g., being referred to by ethnic slurs). If a majority of people being mis-treated have a common characteristic (skin color, religion, etc) and most lacking the same aren't mis-treated, then something's going on and needs to be corrected. The lawyer isn't a first recourse, but it remains an option for these cases.

[laconic517]

im 23 and have never had that problem. Granted myself and my friends are all singledigit handicaps.  Id be furious if some ranger pulled that stuff on me or tried to tell me what tee to play from.

The only course that has even ASKED me about my handicap and what tee I was playing was when I was at the K-Club.  We played one tee up but it was my first time playing in months and if I went back id play from the back for sure.

Id complain to the owner/manager of the course.

edit:

WOW i missed your 3rd part.  If that happened there would DEFINITELY be some type of fight or something or id cause a HUGE scene.  Theres no way some random ass guy is going to call me a liar in that situation.  You better believe that guy is going to get fired.

[clubchamp]

I had this happen to me a couple times when I was younger. My most memorable was at my home course when I was 15. Two of my buddies and I are playing and we are all 15 or 16 shooting in the mid 80s it's a saturday so it's slow. The ranger who knows me and my family since we were members there is waiting after the 7th green and says the group behind us is complaining about how slow we are playing I thought it was a joke. So he says something to us again on 11 and as we are walking off 13 he says if he says if he has to talk to us 1 more time we are gone. I said we are waiting on every hole where would you like us to go and he says the group behind us said we were backing everything up. The reason I thought he was joking at first was that the group behind us was my cousins, uncle, and father so I was pretty sure good old dad wasn't complaining. I said something to my dad after the round and he went in to have a nice chat with him so I never heard from that ranger again.

The country club I play is actually really good with the junior/college members but we do have the few who play the tips and shouldn't. They believe they are 70s players but happen to shoot in the mid 90s all the time.