Kevin Na's 15 or 16+ on a Par 4

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by uttexas

My understanding of rule 28, is that the player can deem his ball unplayable.  Not sure why he didn't play his provisional.  The provisional was in the rough, but not in jail, like the original drive.

A provisional can only be used if the previous shot is lost or OB. He couldn't play the provisional (in this case his 3rd shot off the tee) since he found his second shot off the tee. If he wanted to declare the 2nd shot off the tee unplayable, and didn't want to drop, he'd have to go back to the tee again to put a ball in play (which apparently is what his caddy was recommending.)

[uttexas]

Thanks for clearing that up sacm3bill.  I'm guessing that his best option would have been to go look for the original tee shot instead of immediately hitting a provisional.  This might not have been a popular move amongst his peers and viewers, but would have saved him some strokes.

By the way, when does the five minutes start?  When do you start the stop watch on the "five minutes".  Is it when you are walking down the side of the fairway searching in the rough?

• c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5 ).

I suppose another option (in hind sight) would be to have just hit a second ball off the tee without declaring it a provisional.

see the second part of rule 27-2A

27.2. Provisional Ball
• a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball , and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.

If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1) ; the original ball is lost.

[jwrussell]

True, but I can't see any tour pro doing such a thing unless the shot is beyond obviously not recoverable.  If there is even the slightest chance the ball is playable from where you hit it to the fairway, you have to take that chance (of checking).

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by uttexas

I'm guessing that his best option would have been to go look for the original tee shot instead of immediately hitting a provisional.  This might not have been a popular move amongst his peers and viewers, but would have saved him some strokes.

By the way, when does the five minutes start?  When do you start the stop watch on the "five minutes".  Is it when you are walking down the side of the fairway searching in the rough?

I don't quite follow how not hitting the provisional would've saved him any strokes. There's never a downside to hitting a provisional - all it does is save the effort of going back to the tee if you can't find the previous shot. It wouldn't have changed Na's situation at all - whether he had hit a provisional or not he would've had to go back to the tee to hit again if he didn't want to play the found ball.

And I believe the five minutes starts when you arrive at the area in which you believe the ball is lost.

[uttexas]

I think he would have been more likely to go back to the tee with a stroke and distance penalty if he had not already hit a poor "provisional" drive.

[ERdiesel]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

If he wanted to declare the 2nd shot off the tee unplayable, and didn't want to drop, he'd have to go back to the tee again to put a ball in play (which apparently is what his caddy was recommending.)

I was a bit surprised though when Kevin asks his caddy after finding that second tee shot in the woods, he asks his caddy what are the chances of me getting out of here, and the caddy instead of saying zero, says 50-50.  First of all Kevin had a brain fart for thinking he was going to somehow get the ball out of that spot without a few strokes at best, second of all, the caddy if he felt so strongly that kevin should go back to hit another teeshot, then he should have answered kevin with a "no chance" whatsoever.  ultimately the blame rests with the player though.

[Shindig]

#9 was his last hole today, and he was sure to miss the cut by that point.  Yet he hit GIR and made par.  I'm not sure what, if anything, the lesson is here.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Shindig

#9 was his last hole today, and he was sure to miss the cut by that point.  Yet he hit GIR and made par.  I'm not sure what, if anything, the lesson is here.

I think the lesson is that I'll never again feel quite so bad taking a 10 on a par 4.

[dhanson]

i flipped to the Golf Channel around this point:

i swore i messed up and accidentally flipped to one of the hunting channels.

[BruceMGF]

It's so rare to see a pro athlete and honestly think "damn, I could do *way* better than that!"

(Well, there are airballs on free throws, too.)

[newtogolf]

Seemed like a case where his caddie needed to get him to walk away from the ball for a while and clear his head.  It appeared that Kevin was totally embarrassed and just wanted to get out of the woods as quickly as possible and things just went from bad to worse for him.

[golf4fun12]

I think it was pretty funny the way he and his caddie were talking. Na seemed pretty pissed off, but, he kept his cool.

[uttexas]

Didn't realize until last night (when watching the second round), that despite scoring a 16 on that hole, he still had enough composure to finish the round with a birdie run and only had an 80 for the 18 holes.

Round 1 AT&T; Oaks Course

Hole	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	OUT	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	IN	TOT
Par	4	5	3	4	4	4	3	5	4	36	4	4	4	3	5	4	3	4	5	36	72
Rnd 1	5	5	3	4	4	3	3	4	16	47	4	4	4	3	4	4	2	4	4	33	80
Status	+1	+1	+1	+1	+1	E	E	-1	+11		+11	+11	+11	+11	+10	+10	+9	+9	+8		+8

[DocWu1948]

"You got nothing. Let's go back to the tee." said his caddy.  Let's see. Second tee shot has him laying three. I read his third tee shot (provisional) was also in the woods, so a fourth tee shot would be his seventh? I guess he figured he could get out to the fairway in three or less. Oh well.

Next time I get a snowman, it will be called  a half-Na in honor of Kevin's good humor thru this debacle.

[xxsoultonesxx]

Worst I've ever shot on one hole was an 11. And I thought was was awful.... He took it all in stride and managed to salvage the rest of the round. If he had parred the 9th, he would have been one shot off the lead, too.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by DocWu1948

"You got nothing. Let's go back to the tee." said his caddy.  Let's see. Second tee shot has him laying three. I read his third tee shot (provisional) was also in the woods, so a fourth tee shot would be his seventh? I guess he figured he could get out to the fairway in three or less. Oh well.

Next time I get a snowman, it will be called  a half-Na in honor of Kevin's good humor thru this debacle.

I think the provisional would be irrelevant.  The ball was not lost so the provisional is abandoned.  You can never have a choice between a provisional and a ball that is in play.  The provisional can only become the ball in play if the original (second) ball is lost or OB.  If he went back to the tee a second time it would be his 5th shot I believe.

I played today and had a 9 (2nd shot OB and then it went to he!! after that).  But I didn't feel nearly as bad as I would usually thinking of KN.

[Taylor Reynolds]

After seeing what that looked like, I would've taken an unplayable lie, or just teed it up again.

Poor guy.

Dont think I've ever recorded a 12+ even in competition. Granted, I'm not on the PGA tour. lol

[SoCal Blade]

He needs a new caddy. His current "bag carrier" is too much of a smart ass to be of any use to Kevin. Kudos to Kevin for gutting it out

Kevin hits the ball, the clown carrying the bag wipes off mud from the clubs, cleans balls and replaces divots, PERIOD.....it is not and never will be a show about caddies...besides, who cares about them?

Ive seen McKay ruin phils concentration a lot of times with his jibber jabber and verbal diarrhea ....Hey Bones, why not shut up and let phil think, maybe you can clean up the 9 iron a little and get out of his way.